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Breathing Support Technique ( diaphragm using abdomen or sternum? )

Hey guys, so i had some vocal lessons and my teacher said that my breathing should fill up the sternum and that i should keep that open posture while singing.

He also told me not to care for the abdomen too much, in fact, he told me the abdomen itself shouldnt be the main thing to worry about, it shouldnt squeeze in but rather just gently activate.

I saw some of kens videos and it seems like a different take on breathing technique as he cleary cares much more about whats below the sternum, "filling up" the abdomen and then squeeze in while singing, barely touching on the fact that the chest should be expanded and not fall with the exhalation.

Am i missing something here? Or are these really different takes on breath support?

Comments

  • videoacevideoace Posts: 1,561Pro, 2.0 PRO
    You may have misunderstood what was going on in Ken's video for Diaphragmatic Breathing. He clearly turns to his side so you can see where all of the breathing, and work is being done, and he does mention rib cage expansion, and the fact that his chest doesn't move when he is breathing.

    Peace, Tony
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 13,757Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    Your vocal teacher is not in agreement with what is taught here, so somebody is wrong. How many record albums does your vocal teacher have out, and how many years have they spend on the road touring and playing concerts? Can your teacher sing "Still Loving You", "PainKiller", "She's Gone", and hundreds of other difficut songs better than Ken? Do they have hundreds of videos out, displaying how well their sternum breath works on songs like this?

    I use Ken's techniques and they work well for me.

    You have to put your faith in what someone teaches and hope for the best. If they really seem to have a direct track to success in singing professionally in the genres that you would want to sing in, then follow your instincts.

    What is taught in KTVA is Ribcage Expansion, which is maintained throughout several abdominal breaths. Ribcage expansion is only one element among several other intertwined elements that work together to form Diaphragmatic Support. Ribcage Expansion is different from the idea of using that sternum breath to power your singing breath.

    We discuss this in detail in the student areas of the forums.
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 2772.0 PRO
    edited October 28
    Hi @ItsMeJohnny,

    I absolutely with Bob (@highmtn). I learned trumpet in my youth and was taught that is the only correct way like Ken teaches. And Ken has a very good free video on youtube in which he demonstrates it perfectly:



    In the students area for registered students we have even much more information on this important topic.

    Regards,
    Doc

    PS.: Johnny, I think you teacher is wrong.
  • ItsMeJohnnyItsMeJohnny Posts: 8Member
    Thanks for the replies guys, my teacher has actually trained alot of good singers in my country, however i dont really have a way of knowing if they were good singers to begin with or not, and maybe, from what ive started to understand on this journey of singing is that vocal coaches for the most part, do teach well in a general way but seem to try and focus on a specific part as if its their expertise or something.

    I have used for most of my time while singing (a little over a year ) this diafragm support (although in a flawed and incomplete way) that ken shows on his videos because i can feel the increase in power that i get from it, but my teacher did showed me the value of having the rib cage expanded at all times and having a relaxed posture. Im just not sure how i can be relaxed and activate the abdomen at the same time ( he must have been talking about relaxing the throat ).

    Maybe he was just starting from that place because he thought it was where i was most weak...? I only had 4 lessons with him, cant really afford much else, he did helped me with reducing tension and gave me a better awareness of my voice, maybe he would have gonne over the abdomen once he thought i could handle the upper torso stuff. And hey, im not trying to say that ken's way is wrong in any way, im just trying to figure out why im getting different stuff being told to me. I understand what you mean, ken has proved his knowledge with his life long career and my teacher has not, (that i know of) although when he sang he still sounded great :smiley:

    Anyways thanks for helping me out :smile:
  • Gaston_JaureguiGaston_Jauregui Posts: 520Moderator, Enrolled, 2.0 PRO
    @ItsMeJohnny hey, how are you? I totally understand you, many teachers can be good to some degree and give you some good info and some info that is not that good and still might work to some degree, I personally went through a lot of vocal coches and programs and stuff, the thing with Ken is that he went with the BEST vocal coaches and teachers out there, and funnily enough some stuff contradicted from coach to coach, so he had to figure out what really worked and what not, and what were the pros and cons of every bit of info he got from them, in the end he became the singer that he is which is completely mind blowing, I personally have heard him, not only through videos but in person and the info that he gives works, with this im not saying that your vocal coach doesn´t have some good stuff, but I have gone with some great teachers too, but NO ONE has proven singing in person and with students as Ken has and no one has given the info as clear as he does, I personally have been researching about the voice for years before KTVA, and when I bought the course, he was the first one I heard talking about vowel modifications the way he did, I had not even heard the term, KTVA program´s price is ridiculously cheap to what you learn, yesterday Ken gave a free live stream in youtube and when he talked about all this subjects I was like OMG this is amazing info he is giving away for free, and people probably dont even realize it.

    anyway just trying to help, and trust me check the video on support that doc posted, and really nail it, not just like "oh I get it" really watch it a lot, if you get results, which you will , you´ll want the course

    Gaston :)
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