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What would be my vocal fach, If I decided to sing classical music ?

Hi, I'm O'Bryan and I just recently signed up on this forum !

The reason, I created this topic is that I'd like to know where my voice sits in classical music fach ?

My vocal range is : G2-B6 (I believe somewhere around that note, but I can surey get to the 6th octave), my passaggio is about A4. Now, I do assume that vocal range is not a proper way to determine fach, so I'll give you information about my timbre !

I would describe my timbre as boyish, but to be honnest, I know my voice type (Tenor) because my former singing teacher told me that I was a Tenor.
Plus a friend of mine, told me that my voice was bright ! So the question is actually, what kind of tenor am I ?

Now, I made some research about having a " boyish tone " and everything, and they talk about a fach called " leggerio " but I'm not sure ! When I sing into the 4th octave (C4-B4), my voice get instantly " boyish ", I'm not talking about nasal but " boyish tone " !

Anyway, I'd like to know if other people got this " boyish tone " too in the high note ? or If there's some tenor that could help me with it ?



Comments

  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,280Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    edited May 26
    Your fach is determined more by where your secondo passaggio is than your lowest or highest notes. At A4, that's for sure a tenor passaggio.

    Keeping the tone light and bright is key to singing higher, and tenors tend to get the high parts when there are groups of singers being divided up. You can google vocal fachs and get the "exact" classification for a male that transitions at A4. That's going to put you in the box that's labelled Leggiero Tenor. That classificaton is less important than what you can do with the range and tessitura that you have.

    Ken teaches his students to sing in "little boy voice" after they have warmed-up their upper register. That's mostly a placement where you drop a lot of the husky, girthy "chest weight" tone off of the voice and shave it down so you can keep going up in pitch.

    Just listen to Michael Jackson when he would go up high. That's the kind of tenor tone you need for upper register gymnastics of the pop and rock variety. That's classic "little boy voice".

    Bob
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    Here it goes.I agree it doesn`t matter much though.

    Voice Type primo passaggio secondo passaggio
    tenorino F4 Bb4
    tenore leggiero E4 (Eb4) A4 (Ab4)
    tenore lirico D4 G4
    tenore spinto D4 (C#4) G (F#4)
    tenore robusto (tenore drammatico) C4 (C#4) F4 (F#4)
    baritono lirico B3 E4
    baritono drammatico Bb3 Eb4
    basso cantante A3 D4
    basso profondo Ab3 (G3) Db4 (C4)
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    highmtn said:

    Your fach is determined more by where your secondo passaggio is than your lowest or highest notes. At A4, that's for sure a tenor passaggio.

    Keeping the tone light and bright is key to singing higher, and tenors tend to get the high parts when there are groups of singers being divided up. You can google vocal fachs and get the "exact" classification for a male that transitions at A4. That's going to put you in the box that's labelled Leggiero Tenor. That classificaton is less important than what you can do with the range and tessitura that you have.

    Ken teaches his students to sing in "little boy voice" after they have warmed-up their upper register. That's mostly a placement where you drop a lot of the husky, girthy "chest weight" tone off of the voice and shave it down so you can keep going up in pitch.

    Just listen to Michael Jackson when he would go up high. That's the kind of tenor tone you need for upper register gymnastics of the pop and rock variety. That's classic "little boy voice".

    Bob

    Ok, thanks for the information ! Do you have any pop singers that would be classified on the same fach ? According to ViniciusOliveira , I am leggerio tenor (Passaggio A4) so ?

    Oh and by the way, could you explain more in depht the primo and secondo passaggio thing ? Because I don't understand how there's two passaggio in the voice.
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited May 27
    First passaggio is the note on which you go from chest to middle\mixed voice.
    Second passaggio is the one on which you go from middle\mixed to head voice.

    Most untrained people has no middle\mixed voices (thus no second passaggio as well) because this vocal register is usually develeoped gradually as one builds a\improves his connection between chest and head voice.

    Mixed voice is a register that clearly sounds like a blend of head and chest,whereas middle voice sounds and feels way more like chest than head.
    When you hear someone singing a very high note with "chest", chances are he\she is actually using a very "chesty" middle voice.

    Russell Hitchcock from Air Supply is considered a leggerio tenor.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    Hmm ok, it's a little bit clearer but... now I'd like to know how the mixed voice sounds like ? It's a very confusing term and I saw many thoughts on the subject so I can't really have a picture of it...
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited May 28

    Mixed at 5:52 and 6:30 onwards.

    I`m sorry if hes not your favorite sort of singer,yet he`s the best one I can come with when it comes to mixed register.

    Mixed voice is said to be barely used outside rock music.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member


    Mixed at 5:52 and 6:30 onwards.

    I`m sorry if hes not your favorite sort of singer,yet he`s the best one I can come with when it comes to mixed register.

    Mixed voice is said to be barely used outside rock music.

    This is just amazing ! I actually like those high pitched male voice. Now, I do understand a little bit more the mixed voice. To my ears, it felt like it was a powerful headvoice and also a sort of strech of the chest voice !

    Now, the last question is how are we supposed to achieve it ? Because I may be doing it without being aware of it actually..

    Here's a singer that I think he's using mix voice, correct me if I'm wrong !



  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited May 29
    To my ears, it felt like it was a powerful headvoice and also a sort of strech of the chest voice !

    You've got the idea.


    Its a part of your voice that will be gradually born. You`be able to use it with the same ease as you use your head and chest voice.
    It begins at the note your mid voice ends.
    Using mixed voice sounds and feels more like head than chest. I recommend you record yourself trying to achieve your mix register and let Bob say whether you did or not. Hes an advanced singer.

    I`d also like to hear you transinting at A4,if possible. The first passaggio`s limitation is said to be G#4 for both males and females.
    One`s passaggio gets a step or so higher after him\her warmp up.

    Yes,he used mixed voice. At 1:35 he begun with his upper chest register,went to middle voice and then to a heady mixed voice,I think. I`m a beginner as well :D
    I`d say at 2:15 he was definitely in mixed voice.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    Ok, wait first what is " middle voice " ? Then who's " Bob " ?

    I'm not sure to understand what you saying when you talk about " first passaggio " at G#4 for males and females ?
    I could sure do an audio clip.

    But I don't understand, you said first passaggio is C4 for the lowest tenor and F4 for the second, then you say that G#4 is the first passaggio limitation for males and females ?
    Could you make it more precise ? I mean maybe you could tell me how the events in your voice occurs ? Because you talked about chest, middle voice, mixed chest voice, head voice, mixed head voice lol... What the h**** is all that ahah ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 2
    Middle voice would be an inversed mixed voice.
    As you said yourself mixed voice is "a powerful headvoice and also a sort of strech of the chest voice ! ".

    Middle voice would be "a chest voice and also a sort of head strech", in the sense it sounds more like chest than head,yet middle voice begins after the first and ends at the second passaggio.
    After your second passaggio,eigther you head or mixed voice will begin (depending on how much you work on your mixed voice.


    Bob is the moderator highmtn. He's a vocal expert.



    The whole vocal classification stuff was develeoped by classical musiciains some hundred years ago.

    Classical singers don't stretch their vocal registers as much as rock vocalists,thus the passaggi of opera people is limitated to the list I sent you before.

    Persons might,through very hard work, make their passaggi become higher or lower.

    As one' voice grows, so will his\hers passaggi. They'll likely be located about a step or so after their previous location.

    However it is said that no matter how hard a human being works on his\her voice, there will always be the limitation of G#4 for the first passaggio and G#5 for the second passaggio.

    Ken was a Baritone at first yet he rehearsed so much now he can sustain a G5 with mid voice. That's what I'm talking about: stretching to the limit.
    Many rock singers did and are still doing such stretching.


    All those "voices" are parts of the human voice. When we're brand new to singing,we only have a chest and a head voice. As we work on our vocals, our voices grow. Then,those new voice registers are gradually born,one by one.

    Each register has a different felling on the throat
    (middle voice feels just like chest voice,though).
    Mixed feels between head and chest.
    Mixed voice usually contains more head voice than chest on it.
    If someone's mixed voice had,lets say,40% head and 50% chest,it'd be between mixed and middle voice.


    I recommend you rehearse on and on instead of caring about all this stuff for now. You'll gradually know all this as your voice grows and you get used to it.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member

    Middle voice would be an inversed mixed voice.
    As you said yourself mixed voice is "a powerful headvoice and also a sort of strech of the chest voice ! ".

    Middle voice would be "a chest voice and also a sort of head strech", in the sense it sounds more like chest than head,yet middle voice begins after the first and ends at the second passaggio.
    After your second passaggio,eigther you head or mixed voice will begin (depending on how much you work on your mixed voice.


    Bob is the moderator highmtn. He's a vocal expert.



    The whole vocal classification stuff was develeoped by classical musiciains some hundred years ago.

    Classical singers don't stretch their vocal registers as much as rock vocalists,thus the passaggi of opera people is limitated to the list I sent you before.

    Persons might,through very hard work, make their passaggi become higher or lower.

    As one' voice grows, so will his\hers passaggi. They'll likely be located about a step or so after their previous location.

    However it is said that no matter how hard a human being works on his\her voice, there will always be the limitation of G#4 for the first passaggio and G#5 for the second passaggio.

    Ken was a Baritone at first yet he rehearsed so much now he can sustain a G5 with mid voice. That's what I'm talking about: stretching to the limit.
    Many rock singers did and are still doing such stretching.


    All those "voices" are parts of the human voice. When we're brand new to singing,we only have a chest and a head voice. As we work on our vocals, our voices grow. Then,those new voice registers are gradually born,one by one.

    Each register has a different felling on the throat
    (middle voice feels just like chest voice,though).
    Mixed feels between head and chest.
    Mixed voice usually contains more head voice than chest on it.
    If someone's mixed voice had,lets say,40% head and 50% chest,it'd be between mixed and middle voice.


    I recommend you rehearse on and on instead of caring about all this stuff for now. You'll gradually know all this as your voice grows and you get used to it.

    Ok, so according to what you said, my chest voice goes from [G2-E4] then my middle voice [E4-A4 (I can actually get to B4 but let's say A4)] then mixed voice [A4-F/G5] then head voice [G5-B6] ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    If your voice was already built (if you currently sing in a Pro level),most likely.
    Yet,it also depends on some aspects of your voice that can't be written down.

    By hearing you singing each note of your range it'd be easier to define where each of your vocal registers begin and end.

    PS: I recommend you ask Bob hearing that recording you're about to upload since he has a lot more knowledge than me on general singing.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    edited June 5

    I have another question, you think speaking lower that we're supposed to is damaging to vocal folds ? Because I actually have a high speaking voice, years ago I was told I had a gay way speaking.. so I started speaking lower but just yesterday, I used my real speaking voice and a friend of mine was imitating me because I had this higher pithed voice anyway...

    Is it possible to damaging vocal folds speaking lower than our natural speaking voice range and if not, can it adds vocal range on lower notes by speaking constanly on lower tone ? (Like A2-G2, my speaking voice tend to be [D3-F3-E4], the E4 is when I want to be louder)

    And by the way, what about you ? How long you've been singing ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 5
    It depends on how you want your voice to sound. Genetics do play a role in this stuff,yet discipline matters much more.

    Your speaking tone and range will be your voice`s defeault tone and range.
    Thus,if you speak at a low range,you`ll most likely lose the ease you have on your
    currently speaking range (D3-F3-E4).

    If you want to add those low notes to your range, you should try singing them instead of speaking.
    Otherwise,your voice might go through change. At least,thats what happened to me.

    I'll tell you my own experience since its the only resource I own:


    I've been singing for half a year.

    Since I was 10 (I'm 20 now), I wanted my singing voice to get REALLY high pitched so that I'd sound like a 8 year old child when singing. Since I begun this program, my voice got higher and higher(even my speaking voice got quite thiner),because thats what I work to achieve.


    I did just the same as you (speaking low on prupose) when I was younger so that people would take me seriously.

    I spoke at the exact same range as you asked about (A2-G2) on prupose. Back then,my throath got hurt constantly at the very beginning due to that. Through time,those notes become a part of the range I was confortable with.


    Nowadays I do my best to get those ride of those low notes,though. As I stopped hitting them,I gradually lost my ease on such.
    I tried achieving them recently just for fun and it hurted a lot.


    I'd say yes, it its possible,yet should be done in a way that doesn't hurt. And you should keep practising those notes or they'll disappear from your melodic range (the part of your vocal range you can sing instead of hit).
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    I see, you may be right on some points ! You have videos of you singing ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 10
    Singing work outs,yes. Everything else I tried to sing sounded like s*** up to now :D

    These are some recordings from advanced KTVA students. You should give them a try.


  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member

    Singing work outs,yes. Everything else I tried to sing sounded like s*** up to now :D

    These are some recordings from advanced KTVA students. You should give them a try.


    Well, to be honnest,I'll not say this was good but I found it " not bad " !
    The first one should have sang with the backtrack and the second one is using way too much reverb ! But I'm pretty sure it would sounds better with better MIC quality

    What style you sing so ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 10
    Indie and Hard Rock. You?

    There are great students from KTVA. Most of them are featured in Ken`s videos. I agree these I showed you aren't that good but anyways.
    The second vocalist begun singing about a year ago. The first one said he just doesn't dedicate that much.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    edited June 14
    Oh, I'm more into Pop, R&B thing !

    I see, I see !

    What do you think about this singer :









    He has a very heavy texture in his voice, this is my favorite singer (Deillele Ankrah) in the group, they're from Liverpool !
    You can see he sings rarely in the 3rd octave and only belt thoses 4/5 th octave ! He's constantly beetween E4/F4 - C5 I would say !
    Would you say he's a high baritone or spinto tenor ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    I'd say Spinto Tenor due to his boyish tone. High baritones usually have a manlier timbre.
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,280Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    I think these are cool videos. Harris has a cool tonal balance around the Bb4, with the occasional, casual B4 and C5. That seems to be his sweet spot, at the Bb. Great group singing.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member

    I'd say Spinto Tenor due to his boyish tone. High baritones usually have a manlier timbre.

    I think I've been misunderstood here, I'm talking about the guy doing the highest part in each videos, like on the 4th video, the one with the white t-shirt (SQUARE..) singing " It's driving me out of my mind, that's why It's hard for me to... "

    But If we're on the same point, why you say that spinto tenor have boyish tone ? On Wikipedia and even man y other sites, they don't mention spinto tenor has being " boyish tone " voice type but more like a heavy texture lying between dramatic and lyric tenor

    Oh I have a question about resonance, if you don't mind ! Is it true that when we sing in chest voice we're supposed to feel the resonance in the chest and when we sing in head voice we're supposed to feel the resonance in the top/back of the head ?
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 23
    Sorry. I though you were talking about the guy with the guitar.

    I'd say the SQUARE tshirt guy is a H.Baritone due to his tone. Its definitely manly compared to all other members,specially that one with the necklace (whos a high tenor).

    In short,all tenors (except low tenors,who're also high baritones) have a boyish tone; thats a trait of the tenor voice type.
    Spinto ones wont be as boyish as standard tenors,yet they`re "younger" in tone than high baritones. Thats what I read.

    I might be very wrong,though. I know near nothing about low voices because I'm only into high tenors :D

    @highmtn Bob,how do you define a spinto tenor and what differs them from high baritones?

    I`ll lead his last query for you since its a tough one.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    I read that " spinto " is in italian and it means " pushed " so I would he's a spinto tenor because he's clearly pushing his chest voice up
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    Guys, I think I just found out mix voice (I'm not really sure) ! At the beggining, I was singing songs (R&B thing, so always high notes and everything), when I started I was straining on note like B4/C5, I would just pull my chest voice on these notes... So after a moment, I decided to sing but with light chest voice and I did it for hours... After that, I was singing ' Chris Brown - Young Love ' (This is a high pitched song because he's very young on this track, you easily find C5/D5 note because he's young and because it's R&B) and here comes the high notes... I was singing them without straining, easily....

    It felt like the sound was living at higher places, it was still in my chest but also split around my nose, don't know how to describe it ! From what I heard about mix voice, I would say it was definitely mix voice ! But we're all different so... cannot be so sure

    How did I do it ? I think, I just started by singing in sort of ligh chest voice for a long time, and when I was singing I was opening my mouth to get the sound out, nice and clear !

    I'm not sure, I have some doubts because as my voice is high pitched (boyish) it could be just my chest voice after being warmed-up..
    Singing songs for hours really warm up your voice lol, like I could head voice to F6 easily...

    If you think I was using mix voice (according to what I described on the top) tell me !
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,280Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    edited June 26
    I think you probably were. Mix is lighter than chest, although you can lean into it with a bit of volume and get it just a little more chesty sounding. Depends on the needs of the song.
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    Likely. It would be way easier to tell if we could hear you,though.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    I wasn't recording myself singing, like I said, it was just for fun lol ! I'll buy some stuff to get a good sound quality and from there I'll send you all the records that you want ahah but for now, just forget it

    I think singers like Chris Brown, Zayn Malik, Ne-Yo or even Usher started to use " mixed voice " from the moment they started singing (maybe unconsciously) and they developped a sort of strong " mixed voice " (chest sounding-like), so that's why they can sing high like that. Well genetics has his part in it too, but the technique too !

    @highmtn Actually when I was singing it sounded like my chest voice (As I said, I have boyish tone so can't tell differences) but it was definitely easier to sing past second passaggio (A4) !

    I'll try it again, and If I see that I obtain the same results, I will definitely write a topic about mix voice to help others ! Like what they should feel etc... in detail !
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 27
    Yeah. Its also possible to make one`s head voice sound like mix or even chest voice,although it requires a lot or training and control of one`s vocal chords.
    The closer the chords are,the more timbral (chesty) the sound will be.

    As like this D6

    It was actually sang in head voice,yet its so timbral it sounds like mixed voice.
    Its called timbral head voice.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    That's a lot of control here ! I could not put that much power to an E6 lol
    Theses Asians are genius everywhere ahah !
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited June 29
    That was actually a D6.
    That guy practised over 10 year to get that skill. I gotta say I like his high notes much better than those of Vitas,whose head voice is non-timbral at all and thus sounds like a dolphin lol


    I suggest you choose whether you want to master chest or head voice before doing Ken's work outs. It takes a lot of effort to expand one's chest to the limit,yet its so worth it. It'll make your mixed and head voice more timbral and give you enough control to sound like the asian guy I sent you.

    If you choose focusing on head voice,though,you'll probaly sound like the guy above.
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    Did you already tried to sing Witney Houston - I Have Nothing ? I tried and I feel like I have very much vocal power when I'm singing in 5 th octave ! It's so weird lol...
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled
    edited July 16
    I cant go above C5 (through mid voice) just yet. I recommend you do the divas work outs so you can control your 5th octave futher , specially those work outs that are piano-only (they go much higher,all the way up to a E6).
  • WanhedaAmadeusWanhedaAmadeus Posts: 17Member
    Oh by the way, I think I was wrong last time about mix voice.. I wasn't in mix voice, I just think that I had warmed-up properly (first) and that I was actually openning my mouth a little bit more than usual so I was not straining...

    Right now, I can't find on the internet a definition of it, no.. I can find many many definitions of it but there's no one on YouTube showing it, I wonder why lol.
    All theses " teachers " on YouTube only talk about theory (Soft palate, blablabla) but when it comes to demonstrate it, there's no one left !

    I actually think, the thruth is that there's no mixed voice.. Some people are born with thick vocal cords and some with thin, some with more or less thick/thin one etc.. and that's the way it is !
    Or the definition that I had of mixed voice is wrong ? I was thinking mixed voice was another register or something

    I also heard that mixed voice was only a blend of the two register, to make the transition seamless... So anyway, all this thing is bullshit, unless a teacher show me IRL, for now, it's bullshit. Only thing counting from now is that you need to warm-up properly like for a good 45 minutes/60 (For me, I think this is it), and sing everyday (your voice will become flexible and strong this way)...
  • viniciusoliveiraviniciusoliveira Posts: 278Enrolled

    There is a mixed voice and there is a middle voice a well.
    These two will be gradually born as you develeop both you chest and head register.

    These will be,little by little,"fusioned".

    Both mid voice and mixed voice are a blend of chest and head voice. As your 1st and second passaggio become stronger,your mixed and middle voice will appear.

    Both are a fusion of chest and head. Middle voice feels and sounds closer to chest whereas mixed voice feels and sounds closer to head.

    You'll get those things as you develeop them.

    Ken himself did videos on mixed voice. Check them out on youtube.
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