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Oye Como Va { Santana Cover }

ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
Hi,

This is a classic track from his early years.

Not a lot of lyrics here, but I hope they are usable.

I'm on vocal and guitars.



Comments

  • stratmanstratman Posts: 301Moderator, Pro, 2.0 PRO
    @iking this is worthy of a longer comment than is typical of me. Before commenting on people’s posts I usually review previous posts and comments to gain better context of where a person is on their singing journey. I spent more than an hour reading your journey.

    You managed to get a reasonably balanced mix on this one but, even though the vocals were sitting better, they didn’t have the clarity one would expect. Your guitar was really great. I personally enjoy Satana and you did a reasonable job of recreating his sound.

    The vocal ... I can’t technically explain what the recording issue is except to say it sounds a bit washed out ... seems still too much effect but others may be able to help pinpoint what may make it better.

    Because this is a singing forum, I’ll focus on what I could pickup while thinking beyond the effects. It was difficult but I’d say that you’re lacking enough support to maintain consistently on pitch notes. You may be best to post a raw example of singing a basic LAH exercise so that we can focus on giving feedback for improving voice quality.

    From my background reading, you come through as a very creative person. Your ability to interpret and then express a song in your own style is well beyond what I can do currently. I get a sense that, like me, you have tendency to get discouraged with your singing and fall back to guitar for a while (because we play guitar well). The improvements in singing may be taking longer than we want but we must stay on the path to arrive at the destination.

    I have found long spells of what seems months of no progress and then suddenly another break through occurs e.g. last week, I discovered I was using way to much air. As we ascend in pitch, we experience tension. The natural thing to do is fight the tension with more air. Last week, my revelation was to begin thinking counter to this. I thought, what would happen if I made it lighter ... it worked. I think it only worked now because of all the previous months developing good cord closure that is required to move higher without a yodel. The amazing thing is that I feel support more naturally without trying to manufacture it. I’m not saying this for technical advice on support or breath, but more to encourage you to have a renewed enthusiasm for your singing journey.

    I hope I have not offended you in any way with my comments. From my reading, you have already had a lot of feedback about the processed sound of your vocals and my intent was not to relitigate that but to offer encouragement to continue developing your voice.

    Cheers Rob
  • ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
    edited June 5
    HI Stratman,

    thanks for your detailed comments. No, not offended, on the contrary= always looking for feedback.

    I've really cut the vocal effects down. At most there is a smidgen of reverb and compression.

    However there IS a NON - Daw effect. Is that what you are noticing?

    I really think my supports good at this stage, but who knows?

    I notice Santana has more than one person singing the lead. Therefore I tripled the track to get closer to his sound. { all different takes, not cloned }

    So that gives it the sound your hearing - I think. Also, to stay in the original key,
    I sang a full step up from what I'm more comfortable with.

    Question: Should I cut the triple track? Double a single track for power?

    Redo it? or?

    As per the guitar comments, thank you. I couldn't find a free VST that really nails
    his { early } tone, but ended up just using a sound I felt comfortable with.

    As for falling back on the guitar. Possibly - and why not? Tommy A, who used
    to post here suggested it. In point of fact I really haven't played much guitar for
    years - but I guess its like " riding a bike" .

    thanks



  • DiegoDiego Posts: 289Member
    edited June 6
    Since you are triple tracking, don't add TOO much reverb, because if you apply reverb on all tracks it's going to sound like a mess. What I do is I apply reverb to a single track then I double track, you can do that for the other voices you are talking about, now I would recommend panning tracks like 80% on each side, make the LEAD vocals stronger and make the backing vocals softer so that we can hear the difference, I can also hear this subtle harmonies in the backing vocals as well. You just have to listen very closely to get all of the elements out.
    You'll figure it out :)
  • ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
    Hi Diego,

    It sounds to me like Santana has more than one singer doing the same lead vocal.
    I'm not surprised, since even today- you can see recent concerts of his on youtube, where his 10 piece band, has 2 lead singers { non- instrumentalists} that traverse the stage.

    Of my vocals, there is no particular "lead" track. I sang the identical line for all 3. I guess it was an experiment to see how that would work.

    Are you suggesting then of tracks 1, 2, and 3. To place 1 at center? Then hard
    right, and hard left 2, and 3? { with one higher volume }

    thanks

  • DiegoDiego Posts: 289Member
    Indeed, and since there are different singers there are different vocal types and qualities. Which gives it the sound of many people singing at once, but you can try and replicate that with panning the vocals so that it gives the impression there are different voices around you. I'll try and record this same song.
  • DiegoDiego Posts: 289Member
    edited June 6

    It's not perfect, I could have put more tracks in, but that would take more time.
    But here I made 4 tracks for the "Lead" vocals and I applied reverb to one track panned 2 and 2 on each side to like 70%, then I put 2 harmony tracks and panned them left and right 80% and made them more subtle so the "Lead" could be heard more. Definitely could put more work into this, but did it for the demonstration purposes. Hope it is to your liking :-)

    All the best,

    -Diego
  • stratmanstratman Posts: 301Moderator, Pro, 2.0 PRO
    edited June 6
    @iking it's likely the triple take that got me. It may be that there are slight timing differences between doubled words that's muddying the sound? I experienced exactly this problem when I did a doubled vocal to get a fat sound when playing around with Enter Sandman by Metallica. I have good timing when playing guitar but my vocal timing is still quite poor. For this one I did many takes of each vocal part to get a final mix that didn't sound "sloppy" i.e. two vocal tracks with exact syllable timing.

    This is also the most processed vocal I've done ... EQ, compression, chorus and reverb are all in there ... it was very hard to work with so much ... I should have been a bit simpler (I typically only use very small amounts of EQ+compression+reverb ... just enough so you can't usually tell ... just sounds nicer).

    One vocal track is at normal pitch and another down low with a bit of grit in my voice. My goal was to pass it off as a single vocal part.




  • ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
    Diego said:


    It's not perfect, I could have put more tracks in, but that would take more time.
    But here I made 4 tracks for the "Lead" vocals and I applied reverb to one track panned 2 and 2 on each side to like 70%, then I put 2 harmony tracks and panned them left and right 80% and made them more subtle so the "Lead" could be heard more. Definitely could put more work into this, but did it for the demonstration purposes. Hope it is to your liking :-)

    All the best,

    -Diego


    Diego, so nice of you to make me this demo, my friend!

    I will re- mix and/ or re- record mine now. My goal is to try and sing it as well as you now.



  • ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
    stratman said:

    @iking it's likely the triple take that got me. It may be that there are slight timing differences between doubled words that's muddying the sound? I experienced exactly this problem when I did a doubled vocal to get a fat sound when playing around with Enter Sandman by Metallica. I have good timing when playing guitar but my vocal timing is still quite poor. For this one I did many takes of each vocal part to get a final mix that didn't sound "sloppy" i.e. two vocal tracks with exact syllable timing.

    This is also the most processed vocal I've done ... EQ, compression, chorus and reverb are all in there ... it was very hard to work with so much ... I should have been a bit simpler (I typically only use very small amounts of EQ+compression+reverb ... just enough so you can't usually tell ... just sounds nicer).

    One vocal track is at normal pitch and another down low with a bit of grit in my voice. My goal was to pass it off as a single vocal part.




    Stratman, nice job. This is probably my fave metallica song.

    I hope one day -- we can have a virtual, silent stage, home kit. And connect 5-10 of us LIVE, to jam, each
    from our own home studio kit set ups :smiley:

    rehearse, and even do concerts live on youtube!

  • DiegoDiego Posts: 289Member
    No problem, If you do need help like this in the future, don't hesitate to just ask. I know you can do it. It just takes a lot of practice, and experimenting to get most of this stuff down, as you can see with some of my tracks before, I've had a lot of trouble with double tracking. Another thing, since it's in Spanish, just try to pay attention how they pronounce the words as well so you can get a bit of similarity as well, because the accent might get in the way.

    Remember to not put too much reverb into it, because that can make it feel "Drowned" in effects. I don't want to tell you how it "should" be done because everyone has their own style. But I want you to understand how to make it sound like there's more than 1 person singing, when it's only you.

    Anyways, hope I helped! And If you have more questions regarding the matter, just ask! :-)

    All the best,

    -Diego
  • ikingiking Posts: 169Pro
    edited June 6
    Thanks man for the tips. My Spanish is super rusty now.


  • DiegoDiego Posts: 289Member
    Haha, no worries. Just try doing it again! I'm here to help.
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