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Looking forward to this

I know that I've recently joined, but this is a topic that has given me frustration over the years. I just can't seem conquer this issue. I love playing guitar as much as I do singing, but when I put the two together, I lose my sense of timing in both areas. I don't want to jump around the volumes, but I may have to check this out sooner rather than later...

Comments

  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,297Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro

    When you want to take a stab at this, one thing you will probably have to do is take it really slow and easy.

    At first it can be hard to coordinate doing more than one thing at a time.  I'm a drummer, and drummers have to coordinate both arms and legs when playing.  Adding vocals is another challenge. 

    A good strategy for figuring this out is to play and sing in very slow motion and slowly add speed.  You may have to do more challenging parts Line-by-Line, over and over before you can add any speed at all.  Eventually you start to get the hang of it and it's more like riding a bicycle.  Once you can rely on the feeling of doing everything at once, it will gradually come together.

    That said, there are so many moving targets when you are learning to correctly sing using the KTVA method, the last thing you need to add right now is another moving target of an instrument.

    Please make sure you're well on track with your vocalizing before adding another bowling pin to juggle!

    When you do take the plunge, start out on simple songs. Simple to sing and simple to play.  One step at a time... Then slowly add more challenging vocals and guitar chops.

    Bob

  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled

    Thanks for the response. I have been looking for a second guitarist, but it is so difficult to find someone who is on my experience level or someone who clicks with all of us. For now, I'm the singer and guitarist and I'm using my looper a lot. I want to fully immerse myself into KTVA so that I may be the singer I know I can be, but until I find a second guitarist, I guess the looper is my best bet. I hear what you say about song choice, I just have to make sure the other guys understand this too. We can't be playing Led Zeppelin and Rush for the time being.

  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,297Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    edited November 2012

    jpachecolm,

    It will all work out as time goes by! Like so many of the rest of us here, we decided at some point that we were going to become lead vocalists, and knew that in order to do so, we were going to have to vastly improve from our starting point. 

    You have come to the right place.  KTVA is THE method that will get you there.  It's a tall order to become a rockin' vocalist AND instrumentalist all in one big Ka-Chunk!   It WILL happen, but we're talking about a LOT of work and dedication!  Big-Time effort for Big-Time results!

    Give yourself plenty of time, and be patient with yourself.  Enjoy the journey.  It's a lifelong trip!

    Bob

  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    Thanks for the advice. I hear you on being both. I love playing guitar as much as I do singing and I'm finding out that I can't survive without either one..Like you said, patience, practice, patience, practice...
  • voodoovoodoo Posts: 250Pro
    Beware of the guitar player slouch.  You have the keep the support strong and any shoulder or back slumping due to a heavy Les Paul hanging around your neck will end up affecting your vocal performance.
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    Yeah, I've had that happen quite a few times. It is something that has to be learned..
  • ZerathiosZerathios Posts: 18Enrolled
    This is a bit old but I'll give my tips anyway.

    The way I started was to just play chords with simple rythmic patterns and then try to sing over it.
    As you progress, start using more complex rythmic patterns as well as picking patterns. After you've conquered this you can try to learn guitar riffs so good that you just know them in your muscle memory - then singing over it will be a piece of cake since you don't need to focus all that brain power on the riff :) .
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    I've been trying these tips and it is slow go, but that is how I will conquer it. Just like Bob said, it is a very difficult thing to be a great singer and guitarist. I want both, but it takes longer than if someone were to concentrate on one or the other..
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    One question that I have as far as being the lead guitarist/vocalist. If anyone else does this, how much attention do you put into each? I find it difficult at times during the week to do both each day, so when rehearsal time comes around, it seems like I am not prepared as I should be on either the guitar parts or the vocal parts. Throw in learning lyrics and I am a lame duck. I will not give up either instrument, just looking for tips from others who do the same thing.
  • sspatricksspatrick Posts: 1,278Moderator, Enrolled
    Hey there,

    I usually work the guitar parts first. Any solos I'll spend extra time on. I also simplify some of the rhythm parts that take place while singing if possible. If you don't have a lot of time I suggest printing out the lyrics and putting the song on repeat while driving. I do it all the time to help with lyrics/melody. You can also do it in the safety of your own home:). The key to both things guitar/voice is repetition. Work it as much as you can. If there are more difficult parts slow them down and repeat repeat repeat. Have fun!
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled

    Gotcha, I'll try that.

  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled

    I haven't been back to this topic for awhile, but I was wondering if anyone could help me with song choice.I have always liked guitar parts that aren't just sustaining chords, but rather lines that follow what the vocals are doing. I know that I have to start out slowly, but does anyone have any songs I can use to better myself to sing/play simultaneously? I love rocking out, but it is a bit tricky if the guitar is busy. Green Day songs? Foo Fighters? Nirvana? Black Keys? Just thinking of 3 piece bands. Any suggestions would be welcome.

     

  • ragnarragnar Posts: 410Pro
    edited March 2013
    Go for some acoustic sessions perhaps? They tend to be quite stripped down instrumentally, especially if the singer also plays guitar.
    Muse is a 3-piece-band, off the top of my head.
    Aren't vocalists more typically rhythm guitarists though? Exactly because it's so tricky to sing one melodic pattern while playing a complicated lead guitar melody simultaneously. I could be wrong though, my guitar skills are very modest to say the least.


  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    I totally understand what you are saying. I'm in the unfortunate situation where it has been so difficult to find a guitarist that is either to my skill level or one who clicks with us. I've also tried going the other way and looking for a lead vocalist, but it is difficult for me to do so for other reasons. I want to be able to convey my own songs myself, rather than someone else. For this reason, I'm doing both, but just looking for any hints out there. I love to do both and I don't want to give up either one. Muse is awesome! I'm going to rely a lot on my looper pedal to help me when things get a little complicated, I guess. Thanks for the response.
  • ragnarragnar Posts: 410Pro
    Yeah I haven't come to the point yet vocally where I want to be out gigging (is that a word? lol) with a band, but I definitely imagine it would be tremendously hard to find people that click with your one's personally and musically. I'm lucky enough that a very good mate of mine is an excellent guitarist with similar taste in music to me, so we should hopefully be able to start out as a decent duo when he moves here come september.
    But yeah hold on to that guitar man, even if you do get an extra guitarist. Being a multi-instrumentalist is awesome. I'm also planning to have my friend drill me into a capable guitarist while I train him to be a back-up singer haha ;)

    You could check out some Alter Bridge stuff. I know Myles Kennedy is an excellent guitarist and they often do acoustic sessions and songs.
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled

    Thanks for the response, it's good to hear from others who are in similar situations. Myles is awesome at both, too bad Slash stole him from Tremonti!!! I'm getting there with the vocals, but like you, I need a little more practice before I start gigging, yes that is a word. I've always been a guitarist who dabbled in vocals, but I feel like I'm ready to take the plunge and do both. Tamplin is really helping and I hope to take a lesson soon and asking him the question of doing both is one of the first things I will ask him......

  • ulrichulrich Posts: 53Enrolled
    edited April 2013
    First 2 advices are borrowed from Frank Zappa: "#1 Don't stop! #2 Keep going!" 

    And: You need to be able to do both tasks effortlessly by themselves, with a relaxedness that would allow you to read a newspaper at the same time. Most of the time, it's not the coordination that is the problem but a "buffer underrun" - we don't know the parts well enough. I'd focus and single out all problem areas first, start real simple.

    Stay on it, and things will start to happen! :)
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    Thanks for the response. I'm taking it slow and good things will eventually happen....
  • SurfingAlienSurfingAlien Posts: 9Pro
    @jpachecolm I was lurking a bit in the old stuff (I must put a copy of Ken videos on the ipad for sleepless night!) and came across this... I hope you don't mind if I add some of my fav tunes to play acoustic and sing, you may want to check out some and try them: as @ragnar suggested, Myles Kennedy/Alter Bridge stuff is truly awesome (Wonderful life for example) - the whole Chris Cornell solo stuff is amazing and extremely easy to play - Stone Temple Pilots' Interstate Love Song - some Goo Goo Dolls tunes (I love Black Balloon, Iris, Acoustic #3, ...) Pearl Jam's Black, Mr. Big To be with you or maybe some classics (Led Zeppelin's Babe I'm gonna leave you is so nice if you can sing it along playing the arpeggio variations, the Stones, Eric Clapton, ...) there are so many I could go on for hours so if you still need advice just drop me a line - cheers!
  • jpachecolmjpachecolm Posts: 40Enrolled
    Surfing Alien, thanks for the list. I know there are tons of songs. I just get so frustrated at times on working both together, but patience and lots of practice. If you have a few more examples I'd appreciate it.
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