Singing Forum by Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy
Hey Dudes and Divas!

Welcome to Singer Forum by Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy. Enrolled KTVA vocalists have access to the full singer forums, self-registered members have access to limited areas of the KTVA singing forum. Register to learn more.

To enroll in Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy Singing Lessons click here.

No matter how hard i try i cant sing

im tone deaf this is my latest sound

i really wanna be able to sing but i just dont have the money i wanna be famous so badly im a good song writer just not singer there is no improvment there


  • Furious_PhilFurious_Phil Posts: 1,283Moderator, Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Don't be so hard on yourself, you are only about 4 months in, we all progress at our own pace. For instance, it took me over 6 months of very hard work and consistent practice to break past E5... I will even admit to starting to believe that was as far I could go with it. Then you know what? About a week past that I was goofing around singing to one of my favourite albums and I had different feeling in my throat when singing in some upper registers. I quickly grabbed my pitch app on my phone and I was touching a G5!
    The moral of the story is you'll never know how close you were to a breakthrough if you give up.

    Lastly, I see you've got the Streaming vol-1, that's a very good start, but you know I really didn't start putting what I learned into practice till Volume 2... like 8 months of training give or take.
    Also, don't worry about being famous, it isn't all that's its cracked up to be... and there is a very high price attached to it. Keep writing, and build that portfolio... maybe take up learning an instrument as well to help to spread out your energies. Above all, stay consistent with your voice lessons, and try to find some pleasure in the journey.

    " Its not the kill, its the thrill of the chase.." ~ Deep Purple
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    @ashfittis - I'm going to be brutally honest with you and won't pull any punches as I don't think it'd help. Yes, I know you and others reading this will probably think I'm a complete ar*ehole, and maybe I am, but I don't see any benefit in mollycoddling you or giving you false hope. Please know though, this isn't a personal attack or anything, it just makes me really angry when I see people like you who want to sing and sabotage themselves through various factors, e.g. self-confidence, desire for reassurance, etc etc.

    If you really, genuinely thought you were "tone deaf" then you wouldn't have persisted for over nine years, invested money in your voice and did the practice. As far as I can hear, you're not "tone deaf", your breathing and support is awful which is why you're flat on the majority of your notes. You're not supporting them at all and they're falling away. It also sounds like you're singing from your throat a lot of the time. You seem to be trying to sound like Lana Del Ray here and imitating that vocal fry thing she does, which may be completely inappropriate for your voice.

    The funniest thing is, especially in light of your lack of confidence, that you have a really nice tone hiding in there. It sounds to me like you're covering it up by trying to imitate (which I did for YEARS, literally until the last maybe 12 months), so your own natural voice is being masked by impersonations. Don't get me wrong, it's a good way to learn but eventually you need to take off the training wheels and go it alone.

    If your entire reason for wanting to learn to sing is that you want to be famous, just stop. Statistically, it's highly improbable that you'd ever even get noticed, never mind getting signed to a major label and being famous, and especially not with the attitude you've got right now. More to the point, what is it that you want to become famous for? Is it for attention? Money? Social status? Even more importantly, how in the hell are you going to get famous if you don't have a product (in this case, your voice) you're confident with?

    Do you think J.K. Rowling lacked confidence in her product? She was rejected by publishers all over the world, but she knew her product was high-quality and that the right publisher would acknowledge this. Sure, she probably doubted herself a lot too, but in the end she knew that she had a strong product that could sell and kept on fighting in the face of what some may see as "bad luck".

    @Furious_Phil offered some really good advice and anecdotal evidence regarding the efficacy of the course. He's even indicated realistic timescales within which to expect to see improvements, but that seems to have gone right over your head. Seriously, why would you come on to complain that you can't sing and then disregard encouragement and advice from a more experienced singer who has actually DONE the course? Do you think you know better? You've said yourself that "it's hopeless", so why are you ever bothering to ask?

    I'll tell you why...You want reassurance, encouragement and to be told that it'll all be ok and that you'll be a star one day. Reality check: You won't. You won't do ANYTHING unless you drop this bulls*it 'woe is me' nonsense. What you really need to do it to start again from scratch and train as if you've never sang before in your life. I say this to everyone, but I've been singing for over 20 years, both professional and amateur, but when I got KTVA (or even just using the free videos on YouTube) I came at it as if I'd never sang before. If you want an example of how I once thought I knew better and how I was an arrogant swine, I initially criticised Ken and his course, his marketing and his approach overall because I THOUGHT I KNEW BETTER. I didn't. This is a fact.

    I ended up damaging my voice badly in early 2017 after years and years of bad technique and oversinging. It was Ken's course that allowed me to recover my voice and improve it far beyond what I considered possible even a year ago. In January of 2017, I thought I'd never sing again, even for fun. Now, over a year later, I've regained my voice and it sounds better than ever so I know for a fact that KTVA actually works. If you're not getting the benefits from it, then I'd suggest that you're not doing it properly and are still relying on the bad habits you learned before.

  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro

    This quote from your first post says a lot to me: "i really wanna be able to sing but i just dont have the money i wanna be famous so badly im a good song writer just not singer there is no improvment there"

    1. Yes, KTVA costs money but you don't need to shell out to learn to sing. Honestly, the free lessons on YouTube from Ken are worth their weight in gold, but you need to do them properly and consistently. Doing them half-assed will give you half-assed results. Listen carefully to what he says and read the comments on here too. There are particular nuances to this approach like the "Ping is King" stuff that can take some experimentation to nail down, but once you've got it you'll know you're on the right track as it just feels right. Again from my own experience: I didn't take a single singing lesson until I was about 25 and even then it was one coaching session with a soprano operatic singer. By that time, I'd trained myself to be able to sing stuff like "Jesus Christ Pose" from Soundgarden without any money, lessons, tutorials or anything like that. Just hard work, practice and constant listening back to my own voice on tape (it was the 90's) to see where I was messing things up. Yes, I learned how to do this sort of stuff BADLY and paid the price for it, but the point is that it's completely possible to go it alone and to push your voice into places you never imagined possible. It wasn't until I was 36 that I bought KTVA and actually realized how important having a good, reliable real-life coach and example of the techniques in practice were. So, to summarize, you don't need money to learn to sing but it can help in acquiring materials that'll improve your ability to do so.

    2. I need to ask again: Why in the hell do you want to be famous so badly? What age are you? Is it so that you don't need to do a 'normal' job? You do realize that being 'famous', whatever that means nowadays, is a LOT of hard work? Look at even someone like an online personality like PewDiePie or whatever his name is: Sure, he's just sitting playing games but he's worked hard at it, sacrificed a lot to get there and can't live a normal life like you and I can. While it'd be great to have the financial security that you can get (potentially and certainly not guaranteed) through being famous, it comes at a far heavier price than what you can even feasibly imagine right now. Seriously, you literally cannot imagine what it's like to be famous and the pressures involved. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging or anything here, but I have two friends who are well-known movie stars and I used to date one of their sisters. From their first-hand reports, they enjoy the benefits fame brings but they'd both walk away from it all if they had the financial security that their work brings them. They love interacting with their fans, but they complain about how invasive people are and how there's always a handful of crazy stalker types who'll do anything to track them down. It seems like a highly stressful and unpleasant way to live, although admittedly the money seems good.

    3. And this ties back into the fame thing too...Look at Linda Perry. She fronted 4-Non Blondes in the 90's and they were huge for a while. She then stepped back and started doing songwriting for people like Pink and continues to make a fortune from behind the scenes. She's a far better singer than the people she writes for, in my opinion, but she's utilized her songwriting skills to make a living and produced some amazing pop music. If you truly believe that you can't sing (which I think is 100% crap, by the way), then why not go down that route and write songs for others? If you can even learn to carry a basic tune to demo an idea for an artist or label, surely that alone is worth investing the time and, if possible, the money in? There are less great songwriters around than there are great singers, and it's rare that someone who can do both comes along. I don't believe you can't sing, but if you give it your best shot, practice hard and consistently and STILL don't see any genuine improvement then at least try to get your basic, soft singing down for the purposes of marketing your songs to others.

    Look, I know I've gone on for a long time here and written a lot (which I do on pretty much every post), and I've also been rather abrupt and possibly rude. I just don't see any point in being all nicey nice with you when you seem hellbent on either ignoring advice or thinking you know best. You don't. I don't. We're here to learn, so putting these psychological barriers of self-doubt and resignation to failure are making everything harder for you. Something you learn along the way is that you don't always know best and that you can learn something from EVERYONE.

    We also create many of our own problems, such as this ridiculous attitude of yours where you've resigned yourself to failure and refuse to accept even the slightest sliver of light into your darkened reality tunnel. If you continue down that road, you're guaranteed to fail because at some level you WANT to fail. You might not be able to see that clearly yourself yet, but it's a basic mechanism involved in those feelings and it'll shape your reality to confirm your worst fears.

    If you want to aim to be famous, do it. Do it with gusto! However, at least aim to be famous for something that is reasonably attainable or at least something you can realistically learn and master, e.g. I personally wouldn't aim to be a catwalk model, even though I basically look like that trans person who won some Miss World contest...hahaha!

    That said, don't limit yourself. Push yourself. Let go of this idea about being doomed to failure and replace it with an, even if it's delusional at first, attitude of "I will succeed in...". Beliefs are malleable and can be changed with work, so maybe start by changing what you believe about yourself first before you start tackling your voice. Be realistic. Be yourself.

    Something to always, always remember is this: You are responsible for everything you do. Don't blame others for your own mistakes or your own shortcomings. Using KTVA as a relevant example, if I buy the course or follow the free lessons on YouTube and don't practice daily, apply the techniques consistently or correctly and then find I still suck at singing...that's my fault, not Ken's. If you can take the free videos, apply what's in them daily and correctly then you will definitely see improvements. This isn't really up for debate, it's a matter of fact as far as I'm concerned because this has been my experience of it since beginning the course.

    Again, if you're not seeing improvements and still claim you're actually following the instructions in the videos then I'd suggest you're lying to yourself. These techniques work and it's undisciplined and incorrect application that leads to problems, so please do take the time to listen and apply this stuff.

    All the best!
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    I really appreciate your honesty and your replies, @ashfittis - I can relate more than you might imagine, especially with the mental health side of things. After a lifetime spent in dissociative fugues, super high levels of anxiety, mania and crushing depression, I've finally (at 37 years old) been diagnosed as having a serious mood disorder and co-morbid anxiety. I've been an outspoken advocate for mental health since my 20's and try to use my art, music and whatever else I can to bring awareness to it and help however I can. It's great to know that this is part of your reasons for wanting to be famous and using your position to help others, that's genuine compassion and it's sadly lacking in this world.

    I can also relate massively to the impersonation thing. Even until last year, I was pretty much imitating people and hadn't really found my own voice. I could do an absolutely spot on impression of people like Eddie Vedder and Mike Patton, but never took the time to listen for my own voice in those imitations. Again, this was after like 20 years of singing so I know all too well how easy it is to adopt the voice and style of the singer whose song you're doing. This is why I love covering songs that were done by women and bringing the octaves down. It forces me to sing my own way, even though when I'd done it in the past I'd tried to sound like the original. Obviously it's a bit different 'cause I'm a guy singing a song mainly associated with a woman, but you'd probably get away with a lot more than I would by singing songs from the other gender.

    Something to consider from a mental health point-of-view that you might be able to relate to is this: I didn't find my own voice because, due to the problems I've got and the symptoms involved subjectively, I had no idea who "I" was or what "I" sounded like. I understand that schizophrenia also involves distorted self-image which leads to instability in the sense of being, or feeling yourself as a presence in the world. With my condition, I can be completely and utterly detached from the world and exist in what seems like the projection of a movie. It's like being the camera, essentially; you're not invested in the world of people and things and you don't feel part of it. When you have no idea what this chaotic collection of sensations that constitutes "you" are, there's no way to really glue them together so it's like there's an empty space internally where other people experience a self. I don't know if that can make sense to you, and I doubt anyone without mental health issues like ourselves will truly relate to it, but it took me a long time to figure out what "my" voice was and what it sounded like.

    As far as haters go...that's why I started singing properly and got really, really good at it. Hahaha! I started singing when I was about 14 and someone told me that a friend, who I'd been jamming in a band with, said that I sucked at singing and pretty much just spoke rather than sang. This guy was actually a really good friend but we had a total arch-nemesis thing going on with one another too, so we'd constantly try to outdo each other. Based on that, I literally said "F*ck you, I'm going to become the best singer ever" and started out seriously - like 3-4 hours every single day - practicing until I had a properly strong, commercial and powerful voice. Use that impetus from those who'd doubt you as fuel and burn that fire stronger.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    @ashfittis I really like Taylor Momsen's voice but she doesn't have a big range or anything fancy, it's her tone and her overall sound that makes it. That seems quite realistic to aim for something similar to what she does, but obviously in your own style.

    Practice-wise, I'd suggest at least an hour a day. Ideally, spend an hour warming up and then do actual singing practice for an hour, but I know that it's not always possible. At the very least, do an hour of scales and exercises. Sing softly, don't belt it out and go for volume over consistency. Your voice might sound weird and thin at first, but that'll gradually build up and you'll increase your volume too

    With regards to backing tracks and singing along, I'd highly recommend using something like a karaoke version without the vocals. Trying to sing along with the existing singer, which we've all done, tends to make you try to emulate them rather than sing using your own sound. Also, when recording yourself singing along with the original track and the original vocal, you won't be able to hear the areas you need to work on or get good feedback on yourself. There's loads of really high-quality instrumental backing tracks on YouTube that, if you don't mind the whole copyright issue, can be ripped to mp3 and thrown into a free audio editor like Audacity or something. As long as you're not making money from them, you're usually ok to use and upload them with your own vocals over it.
    although some sites will either remove them or block them in specific countries. This happens to me with my vocal cover videos but I'd sacrifice availability of the material for the sake of high quality any time.

    Breathing exercises aren't essential really. The best way to go about improving your breathing is to learn 'on the job', so to speak, and understand how you actually put these things into practice in real-time. Remember, just learn to breathe correctly and then start applying it in everyday life. The way we breathe when we sing is basically the opposite of what we normally do, so it can take a bit of practice to flip it and get to grips with what you're doing.

    By the way, I smoke too and have done for about 20 years. Hand-rolled cigarettes too and also, shall we say, legally questionable herbal material but I'm trying to quit for both health and musical purposes. I find e-cig's to be useful, even alternating between cigarettes and those while you're working towards quitting completely.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,112
    You have only been at it a short time. I've been at it almost a year, but I'll never give up until I can sing what I like. When I hear bad recordings of myself, it just motivates me to practice even more.

    If you want to be a professional singer, it's going to take blood, sweat, and tears.

    Be fearless.

    Peace, Tony
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    @ashfittis No problem, I want to help basically kick your ass until you realize that you're far from a lost cause, and that all you need is solid work and maybe a better understanding of the absolute basics. Nine years is a long time, I was at it for over 20 but you're never too old or too good to neglect the fundamentals. Strip your practice back completely and start by reworking your chest voice, bit by bit, note by note. If you think what you're doing is too easy or beneath your skills, you're wrong. Even virtuoso musicians still start with the basics and work up from there, so you or I are no different.

    "I Will Always Love You" is an absolute beast of a song and involves lots of wee tricks that'll be outwith your skill-set at this moment, but not forever. Taking on a song like that is a tough call for anyone, especially in the original key and trying to emulate Whitney's style which I'm guessing you probably did, consciously or otherwise. I'd need to change the key completely and I'd still be away up in my head voice, so I'd struggle with it too. When I say about challenging or pushing yourself, you need to do so little by little. You don't need to make a big leap 'cause the chances are that you'll screw it up first time, lose confidence in trying again and then sulk because you think you're sh*t. It happens to us all, so be realistic and just take your time.

    Set yourself a more reasonable challenge. Get something within your current range, like "Video Games" again but work on it phrase by phrase. Look at how you're distributing your breath to support each phrase. It sounds to me like you're letting out too much air with each line, which will both dry out your vocal chords and mean you don't have enough air to finish the phrase or line. I know Lana's got a breathy sound, but you can bring that aspect to it LATER - Right now, sing it clean; sing it softly and gradually work up to full volume once you've got good control over your breath and support. It can and does take a lot of work but you can absolutely do this.

    As for my own singing, I post demos on here and I've got a YouTube channel if you want to hear anything.

    Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions. If I can help, I will. If I can't, then I'm sure someone on here will be able to anyway.

  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    BIG, massive and major difference, well done! You still fall back into your old habits a lot, but I can better hear where you're going wrong more easily here. I'd avoid using the reverb effect or delay/echo 'cause it's obscuring your voice a bit and the way in which the effect creates a sustain on the note seems to be throwing you off. I know it doesn't sound as cool without the effects, but we're here to hear your voice as it is, mistakes and all 'cause that's how we learn. Check out my practice thread on here, I was posting completely dry recordings done on my phone without any backing tracks. It didn't sound great but it helped me listen more closely and gave a totally honest, unforgiving example of my voice in a raw, unedited way.

    That last "Blaaaack" was pretty much spot on, by the way. You'd taken enough air to support it, it was resonating nicely and sounded more open than you'd done before. There's lots of wee bit where you're getting this totally and you sound much, much better than you did even yesterday, and you know I'm not going to bulls*it you or blow smoke up your ass and tell you it's better just to make you feel good!

    From what I can hear, it sounds like your main problems are as follows:

    1. Breath and support. I'd guess that you're taking in too much air and not planning out your support appropriately. The times when your notes slide out of tune and when you struggle with full phrases all sound like you're running out of breath, which is easily remedied with some work and a bit of planning with regards to the songs you're singing. There's quite a few instances of you doing longer phrases and then continuing to the next line without pause for breath, or sufficient support to continue. This makes some of the lines sound weak and lacking in the power the more correctly supported ones have. I'll do a seperate post suggesting some breathing points in "Back to Black".

    2. Pitch: This ties back into the breath support too as it's difficult to sustain notes consistently without the breath to back it up. The trick is that there's nowhere near as much air required as you'd imagine, and this was the mistake I made for years and lost my voice completely due to. One old-school way to work on your pitch is to stick a finger in your one of your ears while you're singing along. The pitch changes will be much clearer to you and you'll be able to follow them a little easier, although I'll warn you now that it's guaranteed that you'll screw up over and over. Here's my advice on that: Big deal. You're practising, it doesn't need to be perfect. Remember what I said, go back to scratch and learn like you've never sang before. Pull that volume right back and sing softly, slowly negotiate the vowel sounds so that you develop the muscle memory to pull the song off more easily.

    3. Vocal Fry: I'm guessing you're aware of what this is technically speaking 'cause you do it quite a lot. It's that croaky, kinda sexy light growl that a lot of singers and American college girls do. It's a cool technique, but maybe try to avoid it as best you can until you've strengthened the basics up. That's like a kinda special effect so use it sparingly rather than constantly, otherwise it's not as cool sounding when you actually DO do it.

    4. Covered Sounds: Listening to your voice, it sounds like you're doing something I used to do a lot too and 'covering up' the sounds rather than opening them up. Listen to Ken's video on the "AA" and "AH" vowels, using resonance and 'ping' to create a nice, bright open sound that cuts through with power and very little physical effort. For example, right now you're singing it like (and I'll write this phonetically): In eh goh beck tu bleck, so maybe try something more like "Eh-n AA Gaa(bending into the "Oh" sound) bAAck Tooh blahck, opening up the sounds on the vowels. I don't know if that makes any sense but it's the only way I could write it...hahaha! Also, opening up your sound makes your voice grow more, helps your pitch ('cause covering your sound tends to make you sound flat) and also allows you to take advantage of that effortless resonance on the higher notes.

  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    Re. Ed Sheeran cover: Tone sounds much better, but your pitch and timing are still miles off. Are you singing directly into your phone on Smule and listening with both earphones while you sing? If so, try taking one earphone out and listening to your voice within the room. It doesn't sound like you've naturally got any timing problems, but I think the way you're recording is probably distracting you 'cause you're trying to control your voice while also listening to the track and staying in tune/in time.

    Remember too: Go gently. Take your time. This isn't going to change in a matter of days, but I can honestly already hear positive changes so that suggests you'll be just fine. Don't get lazy, easy as it is, and don't forget that you're ultimately working towards a bigger goal overall here.

    Something to try if you do continue to record in this way is to tap out the tempo of the song with your foot or with you hand tapping on your thigh, for example. Just learn to keep the basic beat and your vocals will fall into line with that easily, it just takes a bit of practice. Like, "Perfect" is in 6/8 timing so you're counting like 1-2-3-4-5-6, if you get me.

    As I'd said before, I'm guessing 99% of your problems come down to incorrectly taking the breath and then supporting your notes. I get the problems that come with heavy smoking, but from experience I also know it's possible to still do this stuff properly, and even BETTER using Ken's approach. I know you're skint just now, so stick to the free YouTube stuff and the forums but apply the techniques and listen back to yourself. Record it totally dry on your phone and listen back. It's a great way to learn, but be honest with yourself and be critical; if you think I've been critical of you and been a bit harsh at times, then just imagine how rough I am on myself!!
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    Back to Black - Breath Suggestions (Opinion only, not professional advice)

    This is way I'd structure my breath if I was singing this one...

    [LB] = Longer, more full breath into the abdomen.
    [SB] = Shorter, quicker inhale, probably through the nostrils to 'top up' your supply.

    [LB] He [SB] left no time to regret [SB] Kept his dick wet [SB] With his same old safe bet

    [LB] Me [SB] and my head high [SB] And my tears dry [SB] Get on without my guy
    [LB] You went back [SB] to what you knew
    [LB] So far removed [LB] from all that we went through
    [LB] And I [SB] tread a troubled track [SB]My odds are stacked
    [LB] I'll go back to black

    [LB] We only said goodbye with words [SB] I died a hundred times
    [LB] You go back to her And I go back to
    [LB] I go back to us

    [LB] I love you much [LB] It's not enough
    [SB] You love blow, and I love puff
    [LB] And life [LB] is like a pipe
    [SB] And I'm a tiny penny rolling up the walls in [SB] side


    [LB] Black x7

    [LB] I go back to [LB] I go back to


    That's a rough idea of how I'd tackle this one. There's lots of space for breaths if you really think about the structure of the lyrics and how long each line or phrase lasts. Remove the emotion from it and study the basic skeleton of the vocal part. Once you've got the sounds down, the emotion slides easily into it and, as you've trained your body in how to sing the song to the point where the technical side is mechanical, you'll really be able to feel the song and perform it.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    I'll give your examples a listen when I've got a chance, but I wanted to reply quickly about the course. I recall you mentioning that you were paying £25 to a singing tutor, but I could be wrong. If I'm right and you're shelling out £25 a time for a lesson then I'd be demanding a bloody refund! Evidently the coach has no idea what they're doing, and if some Scottish nobody online can give you useful advice that's already made small changes to your voice then surely you should be saving that money for elsewhere.

    I couldn't afford the Pro course either. I only managed to afford it because I got a tax rebate and decided to invest in my voice. Look at your budget each week or month. Surely there's a few quid here and there that you could save? We live in a world of instant gratification, so we want things NOW rather than later but there's a trick involved that makes life far more meaningful and worthwhile: Delayed gratification.

    In sacrificing something for a greater purpose, in this case maybe sacrificing some luxuries to afford the course in the next, let's say, three months, we tend to enjoy our gains more. If we get what we want whenever we want it, everything loses its sparkle and meaning, and the same applies to good singing courses.

    I know you said that maybe you'll see change within a year, but I'd suggest you'll see if far quicker if you follow the advice on here from me and others. Sure, you won't turn into Celine Dion overnight but you'll sure as hell improve on where you're at now. Don't worry too much about seeing changes quickly, it's like building any other muscle in your body; gains come with time and consistent practice/exercise so don't beat yourself up.

    Something else I'd suggest is avoiding recording new examples of your voice constantly. For a start, you'll get pissed at yourself 'cause you'll play it back and it won't be what you want to hear at first. Secondly, you're only going to reinforce the bad habits you've already got by singing the same songs over and over without really digging deep into your vowels, consonants and how to use them better. I say this 'cause I've done it and still do it - Even today, I've practiced for three hours and tried to record a song I know well, but my body still locks back into old bad habits so I need to go through it slowly, relearning how to do it better. It takes time and patience, so stick with it and be realistic.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,112
    If you're really committed to singing, try this: just do your scales. No songs for one month, just your exercises (scales), and then re-record one of those songs, and see what happens.
    When I started the course all I was worried about was singing songs too, but then I realized that no matter how much I kept singing the same song over and over, I just didn't have the technique to pull it off.

    Your main goal at this point is to get "technique" down. If you don't, you will never sound any different.
    You just have to dig in, and work smart. Think about everything you feel, and hear.

    No Fear

    Peace, Tony

  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro

    What Tony says. He's put it far clearer than my rambling efforts. :smiley:
  • CherieCherie Posts: 121Pro, 2.0 PRO
    @ashfittis Whenever I get honest advice esp. when it cuts through excuses, I have to remind myself what a generous gift it can be. The worst advice is silence. Failures are personal and they hurt! The biggest lie is when you can somehow convince yourself the real cause of your failures are external. Every person alive faces things in life that are far from ideal. In truth, they make up the welcome party to adulthood. As long as you are breathing, you have time to confront and remedy a number of failures! If great singing is what you want, a genuine path to it is right here.

    I believe Ken Tamplin has developed a vocal training program that is extremely honest & actually works which is massively different from anything or any other vocal coach available. To progress you'll have to lay ego, sensitivities and also delusions about what it really takes at the door. He doesn't have the time for any of that stuff. If you decide to accept it, then you have to work your tail off! It's difficult! There is no surgery, pill or magical spell that will transform your singing voice. Muscles and ligaments, agility and strengthening, getting the necessary attitude and mindset and then pulling it all together in a meaningful way takes time, practice and serious focus.

    Even lamenting about lack of money is just another external excuse. It is a big difficult obstacle, I get that, but when you are pursuing your most cherished life dreams you have to find a way to move beyond all of the barriers, even that one. When you look at history and in the world today, there are so many people who have overcome unbelievable obstacles. Most life barriers are not impossible, they are just really difficult.

    I hope you find this encouraging. It is meant to be. If I look past every somewhat discouraged emotion in your original comments, what I sensed the most was that you want to be a wonderful singer. To me, that desire has great value. Beautifully trained and advanced singing brings happiness to others, adds to the world, art and humanity. It even brings happiness to animals! (They are NOT as vocally particular, BTW. I know that personally from my 2 parrots and my dogs!) So I think your goal is worthwhile and should be greatly encouraged. Be tough. Hang in there, work at it and don't let the obstacles block your path.

    Sincerely, Cherie

  • DiegoDiego Posts: 8142.0 PRO
    edited April 2018
    From someone who hasn't even bought the program.
    I've been working with Ken's free videos and demonstrations, and put it to work. I have worked hard, time after time after time. I was told my voice wasn't even good at all, because I used to have this throaty sound.

    But instead of feeling defeated, (which I did at first) I took that and used it as motivation to keep improving. I am always open to learn more, and like many people here have said, money is not the problem, It is you who decides how good you want your voice to be. I've contacted some other family members to see if they can help me afford the course and I will most definitely be getting it soon (hopefully). If not, you have all of these wonderful people who can help you through this journey of yours.

    My best advice is never give up, and If you REALLY, REALLY want to be famous, then you will put the dedication that is necessary to achieve it.

    All the best,

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,112
    If that were the case @iking , most of us here by would be in therapy.

    We all have our own reasons for being here, and nobody should be told that their reason should include "therapy".

    I'm a little disappointed to see somebody here treated this way to be honest.


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,112
    If you are referring to me, you haven't made any enemies.

    We're all in the same boat together. We all have opinions. I just believe that we should be here for the singing, and entertaining aspect.

    We all have things going on behind the scenes in our lives. That's just life. That's why it's important to me to bring people up, and not take them down. Life is hard enough.

    Anyway, like I said, you haven't made an enemy with me. If you ever need or want anything that I can help with, I will.

    Peace, Tony
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,112
    Don't sweat it. Now let's get back to the singing.

  • DiegoDiego Posts: 8142.0 PRO
    Best just not worry about it.
    @ashfittis It was nothing bad.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    Honest opinion? I hear improvements all over the place. Sure there's still a lot of pitch and technical issues but I know you'd said you've had trouble breathing. The fact you've done it at all and then shared your recording is great. It shows you've pushed yourself and showed yourself that you're serious about this, so you should be proud of yourself.

    Like I said, yes there's a lot of technical issues but I don't think it's useful to focus on those first. I can hear improvement in your support, in your chord closure, your breath management and your pitch. You hit a lot of notes dead on, especially ones you miss the first time around like on "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" so you're clearly listening internally to what your voice is doing.

    I think you're still getting a bit distracted by the backing track, but that's something that just takes practice. You're more in time with these recordings than you were and that's also good progress.

    You're still doing the imitation thing too, but I know you can't really help that. Try to be aware of it 'cause one singer may use their vowels different to how you use yours, which can then make it harder for you to hit higher notes. Like, in "Somewhere Over The Rainbow", because you're doing it like Judy Garland you're singing it like "Sum-where Oh-vah Theh Raainboh" (if that makes sense) but maybe trying it more like "S-ah-m wh-ah oh-vah thah rehn-boh" with more brightness in the sound would work better. This is purely a suggestion, you might shape your vowels differently to me but I thought an example might help.

    I'm really glad you came back at this fighting. That takes courage. Well done.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    Drunk singing is never the best example to give, as I know only too well from video footage of me onstage...hahaha! But hey, you posted it and tagged me so I've gave it a listen and I'll give you my rambling, late-night thoughts:

    Pitchy. Massively pitchy but being drunk and probably listening through one earphone doesn't help so I'll let you away with it on this occasion. Hahaha! To be completely honest, there's tonnes of mistakes and bum notes, but it's pointless to focus on those right now since we've already spoken about a lot of that. I'll focus on the positives and offer some constructive criticism as we go.

    You pulled off a really nice series of notes in a good, fairly consistent tone, e.g. from 00.37 to 00.42 which is more than you were doing last week, so that's progress.

    You miss the high note on the chorus the first time around and fall flat BUT I hear YOUR voice in there in the tone. Notes can be fixed, but this is showing more of your own voice between the characters, so to speak, and your own tone and it's a good thing. Second time around at 01.47 or so, you hit it right but then it sounds like you don't have enough support to get you up to the "will always" so you fall flat again.

    I think a lot of your problems with your support come down to the times when you try to show off. Like when you go WAY up into your falsetto, your tone sounds really nice and gentle but you're not experienced enough in properly coming out of that and back into your mixed and then chest voice. Because of that, you struggle figuring out how much air to use and them stumble around. Your confidence in yourself is great but it's also leading you to try to do stuff you can't technically pull off yet. When you listen back and realize it sucked, you'll kick yourself but if you'd just taken the time to work at it and gradually build up to that level then you'll be doing it without even thinking.

    I was surprised by the power in your voice when you started belting out the second part. It's got a good solid sound to it, so just like all of your voice its a matter of taking your time and re-learning how to use that stuff properly. You definitely have potential to be a good singer, and if you work hard at it even a great singer but you need to keep on doing what you're doing, stay disciplined and train hard. If you really want to achieve your goals you need that passion burning inside you and need to know what you're aiming for. You already know you want a voice that's better than everyone else. That starts with YOUR voice and it's already revealing itself. It might sound crap at first but that's because it needs to be trained up and given a chance to shine, not to be outshined by your impressions of others.

    Remember, I've been there when it comes to automatically trying to impersonate a singer, it used to be something I was known for 'cause I could imitate most singers, whether it was Brian Molko from Placebo with his nasal sneer or Michael Bolton's overblown theatrics. It'll subside as you get more comfortable with your own voice, understand how YOU sound and learn to love it.

    Right now, even after nine years at it, you're still basically the kid with the keys to a racecar. You have a powerful voice but it's uncontrolled, undisciplined and unskilled in the way it needs to be to get to where you want to be. Like the kid with the keys, right now you're veering around the road, sometimes you're driving in a straight line and doing really well, but then you're crashing into old Mrs Miggins as she crosses the road 'cause you didn't know which pedal was the brake.

    This is all totally fine though as long as you can always acknowledge that you can still learn how to be even better than you thought was possible. Keep at it and well done on your progress, I'm really happy to see it happen.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    Hiya @ashfittis, you pick up well around the chorus and your voice settles more into the melody. I'm guessing you don't know the song too well 'cause, rather than just being about not supporting well and carrying the notes, it sounds more like you're stumbling around the melody and lyrics. That in itself won't help your performance or your confidence, I hate trying to sing songs that I don't know the lyrics for properly 'cause it takes all your attention away from focusing on your voice.

    I checked out more of your stuff on Smule from before we spoke on here and I think I noticed something that might be causing you problems. On your cover of "Make Me Wanna Die", listen to how much your ability to stay in tune changes between the verse and the wee break before the chorus. It's a massive change and, although it's still a bit shaky, you actually sit with the notes much better on the quieter sections. That suggests to me that you're losing a lot through just being distracted by the music, which is understandable especially with your mental health but it can be improved!

    This is something I struggled with too so I can hopefully help. In all honesty, I only really feel like I've gotten the hang of it properly since starting KTVA! I know Ken isn't a fan of having one earphone off while you're recording 'cause he, and I now actually agree, says that we should sing 'through' the music and find our pitch there. Normally I'd suggest doing this but I now think Ken's right and the best way to go about this is to sing through the music. The trick to it is listening to yourself internally, hearing and feeling the resonance of the notes and hearing them sit with the music through the headphones. You know when you're hitting the right note, or at least are closer to it than doing some mad wobbly thing. It just feels and sounds right, your voice joins the music as one thing and builds this beautiful tapestry of sounds.

    Try maybe turning your backing track down a bit and sing more quietly. Find a good balance that allows you to hear everything while also being able to hear yourself and focus on your voice. Dialling back your volume will also help you gradually grow your voice into that big, more controlled powerhouse that it could be. Singing more quietly, really focusing on your breath and pitch will imprint the muscle memory so that, as you add more volume, the foundation is already built and solid!

    Give it a shot and let me know how you get on.
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    @ashfittis Hahaha I'll still give it a listen anyway when I get a chance.

    I've sung "Like A Stone" a lot over the years since it came out and it's not an easy one to do, so the fact you even tried is to your credit. I'll get some feedback to you as soon as I can!
  • TommyMTommyM Posts: 270Pro
    @ashfittis Don't worry yourself, if I can help then I will!

    I think this version is too low for your voice right now. You can get down there vocally, but again you're lacking support and control but that'll come with practice. You might even sound better trying it up an octave but singing it as gently as you're doing here. The original version may be more suited too 'cause it's in a higher key, so play around with it and see what feels right.

    Remember, you're never going to sound great the first time on any song. It'd be rare to pull that off the very first time. The least number of takes I've done on a song I was singing for the first time is probably at least five, so don't beat yourself up if you need to do it again. The way you're recording too isn't going to help show off your voice but I understand that we need to work with what we've got.

    Do some practice on each song. Really look at it like I suggested with "Back to Black" and break it down into the breathing and vowel sounds. Know in advance how much breath you're going to need to sustain each phrase and make sure you're prepared. It takes practice and there's a knack to getting the balance right, but you'll get there. Think about it a line at a time and understand what you're singing before you actually sing it. It takes out so much of the uncertainty in performance and means you're both mentally and physically prepared to do it. It'll avoid a lot of the distractions that you're getting now too 'cause you're already tuned in to the song and the performance!
Sign In or Register to comment.