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I NEED A LOT OF FEEDBACK, PLEASE HELP

I have two vocal demonstrations I want to share.. First one being a LIVE show I did this past saturday with my band, Set The Charge. All day I felt like my mid voice wasn't completely there, and bridging my chest to head wasn't as effortless as it usually is for me. I ended up doing ok in the performance, but cracked ONCE in the beginning and had a couple of close calls throughout the set, but nothing serious, Just wanted opinions on my performance and what I should focus on -

SET THE CHARGE PERFORMS AT TRASH BAR IN BROOKLYN - 


The second example, as explained in the audio, is a couple of "I wanna rock" by twisted sister parodies I have done.. The first one I did last yearm the second on I did just this past week.. Obviously last year I wasn't enrolled in KTVA.. Now I am.. I have some concerns and questions, so please, if you could, listen to the full track, cause I explain more in there. 

I wanna Rock parodies -


Thanks in advance to whoever helps me out with this. 
-Ant

Comments

  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 14,491Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro

    Anthony,

    The vocal style you are using with Set The Charge is employing a lot of wiggly vibrato and a thinner tone on your voice.  Are you saying that usually you can perform in this style with more stability?

    I'm not hearing that much support in this recording.  I know that you perform in many styles, but that in and of itself can put you in positions where your strength may not be as solid in one vocal characterization as in another. 
    You have many variables possible when being the man of a thousand voices.  In order to pull that off, especially in live band situations, you are going to have to use solid technique each and every time.  You may get your techniques worked out in one style, but then shift to another and be out in left field when it comes to tone, support, cord closure, all of the moving targets...

    In the I wanna rock parodies (both before KTVA and after), you are hitting the notes, but to me it sounds like you are lacking support.  Your voice sounds thin and not connected with the diaphragm. Support is the powerhouse that you are needing.  It's a connection of your voice to your body.  I don't think you're making the connection in your body to your voice.  It's sounding throaty, not gutsy.

    I realize that you've been working professionally as a vocalist for some time, but you have yet to make that solid connection of voice to body, at least in the demos you are asking about here. 

    It's hard to reconcile, because your performance on the Queen demo the other day was spectacular. 

    Again, I'm thinking that you're probably all over the map with so many styles and techniques, that there is also an element of inconsistency.  How can you sound so good on one style and so disconnected on another? Well, because they're different styles and you're using a lot of different techniques, and yes, there are inconsistencies between these different performances and styles.

    The good news is that when it works, it works.  You are going to have to be mindful of the techniques as you port from style to style, and get that support and connection working for you consistently, all the time.  That's not a weakness of the KTVA techniques, that's an inconsistent application of those constants in a varied smorgasbord of voice characterizations.

    If you don't think it can be done, just look at Ken.  He is demonstrating many varied styles.  He's been doing this a little longer than you and I have.  He's got the consistency part down.  You and I may have to pay a little more attention as we apply his techniques to our style.  I don't have near as many different voice characterizations that I use to sing with as you do... and I DO have a few.  And it IS necessary for me to evaluate and ensure that my classical voice is right, and my Rock voice is right, and my ballad voice is right, and my R n B voice is right.  Otherwise one sounds good and another doesn't.  That's MY job to be consistent.

    I think you're expecting a lot of miraculous results in a little bit too small of a time frame.  As you continue to do your workouts, your KTVA training will take deeper root in more and more of your varied styles. 

    If you stick with your KTVA training consistently, it will eventually permeate every nook and cranny of every crazy parody you do.  Give it more time and consistent training.  You didn't become as good as you are overnight, and you're not going to become as good as you're going to get in just a few months... IF you do YOUR job and ensure you are applying ALL of the techniques to ALL of your thousand voices.

    I know you want a lot of answers and information, but please be aware that reviewing in depth half-hour or 45 minute demos takes a lot of time and focus.  Not everybody is going to jump in and do that with you every time.  You ARE important, and we DO want to help you.  You are a more complex set of circumstances than the average singer with just a few hundred voices and styles.  ; ^ )

    I think you're on a great track, and have immense potential to become a far better singer than you are even now.  Everybody wants to become their ultimate future best singer instantly, or at least after a couple of months.  I can tell you this much... it ain't gonna happen any sooner than you make it happen by doing your part for as long as it takes you to get where you want to go. 

    It's all there for you.  We'll help you.  Take it where you want to go.  Don't stop.  You're too good to not take it all the way!

    Bob

     

  • AnthonyVAnthonyV Posts: 44Pro
    Bob, I really appreciate all this, and believe me, I get it about the reviewing 30 minute demos.. As far as the live set the charge demo is concerned, that was sound that was taken straight from the board, Mics always sound very weak in those kinds of recordings, I'm not saying you're wrong but I also don't really see how I would possibly sing any different for Set The Charge than I would in that queen cover.. I mean, I'm not necessarily singing queen, no.. But I feel like I am using the same voice, or atleast intend to. Sure, I go off and do fast paces phrases, etc, but I'm not too sure what you mean by wiggly vabrato and thinner tone. Also, as far as the parody is concerned, which ties in with the performance for that matter, you're saying it sounds like a lack of support. But what's frustrating is that I'm constantly monitoring my support like Ken says.. Please don't take this as like a defensive attack or anything, I hope you understand that I do really appreciate the constructive feedback I get from you and anyone else who takes the time out to respond. It's really what I feel every singer needs in order to get better.. But you've used terms like "throaty", I've heard that before about my voice. I want to get away from that.. Do you suggest I stay on volume 2 for a while longer? Is there anything in the bonus material maybe I should look into? Or perhaps, is it time to move onto volume 3?

    Also, as far as the many styles is concerned, again, I don't really see how different style would need different techniques.. I mean, the way I see it, I break it down into two parts.. The rnb stuff, and the rock stuff.. Under Rnb, you have pop, hip hop, maybe some piano ballady stuff.. Under rock, you have 80s rock, 90s rock, alternative, classic rock, soft rock .. List goes on .. To be honest, those are really the only styles, aside from metal (which i rarely do and try not to do), that I do .. And anything else, like country, is pretty easy to sing, that's just all about twang, I don't need to hit high notes for that. 

    Umm but yeah, again, in short, I would like to know if there's anything I should focus on more than other parts.. You said you liked my performance on the queen song, i felt It needed work.. But how do I keep all my performances that consistent? Cause like I said, I didn't do anything differently from that queen song to the set the charge performance.. I was applying the same technique.. Atleast I thought I was. 

    I'm also not trying to be a vocal god overnight. However, I'm very passionate about this stuff and I'm eager to learn and improve. But I'm also a realistic person and know these things take time. If you get a sense of urgency from me and sometimes a level of frustration, don't take it the wrong way. I'm ready and willing to learn and I know the criticism is what I need to hear in order to do that. 

    Thanks again man. 
  • AnthonyVAnthonyV Posts: 44Pro
    Thanks @cinema, I appreciate it.. Yeah I suppose there's still just a lot I have to learn, It sucks because I don't know when I should take the next step or not without actually having someone to coach me. I get that this is what the forum is for and you could get some sessions with ken if need be. But I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. 

    I sing and play guitar.. It's tough cause sometimes I do fast singing, which as you can imagine, without dynamite support, is very difficult. I was actually surprised I was able to do what I did vocally that night, cause truthfully I felt a hoarseness that entire day and what is normally effortless going into my belting range and even transitioning into my head, was very difficuly, despite the support and keeping my tounge with my jaw, and the vowel mods.. And the chest 3 quarters full with the pillar of air. .. I'[ve hammered all that technique into my head ya know.. And I didn't have an easy time on saturday.. I took a day of rest yesterday. That helped a lot cause my voice seems to be back to normal today.

    I have been singing only since 2005. Before this course I had no direction. Like I said to bob, I'm not rushing it and realize these things take time. 

    -Ant 
  • Ken TamplinKen Tamplin Posts: 432Administrator, Moderator
    Both Bob and Cinema are correct.

    A good example of this was just thins morning I had a sesion with one of my students.

    We were working on Paul Mc Cartney, Jeff Buckley and Tom Jones (of all people :-)

    In Paul's case, he is very gentle on his sound in the Lyric Tenor range.

    Buckley is much more of an emotional appraoch with a thinner sound up top where Tom is a huge operatic sound.

    Each has it's own completely unqiue appraoch to get to these styles and must be treated as such.

    So chest head mix transitions, different timbres, different abdominal strength, different vocal tract shaping all play into this...
  • ragnarragnar Posts: 410Pro
    Good stuff guys, makes for interesting reading.

    @Ken Tamplin
    Jeff Buckley is probably my favorite artist of all and the other two are right up there as well. If at all possible it would be beyond awesome to hear you do a breakdown with a student, maybe if you have that session recorded (even just audio would be great). These last videos with Adam and Gabriela have really been in depth and probably the most interesting ones I've seen uploaded, which is saying something.
  • AnthonyVAnthonyV Posts: 44Pro
    @ken tamplin, I totally agree with what they were saying. I mean, I'm totally not going to sing my band's music in a Freddie Mercury delivery, I understand the difference in approach. As far as my band's performance, I can tell you for a fact, it would have been a vocal MASSACRE if it weren't for this course. Cause I didn't really have an easy time with my warm ups that day, my voice seemed tired, slightly hoarse and didn't have that bright ping to it despite my execution of all technique.. I ended up pulling off a lot more than I thought I would. 

    Either way, I want to improve, so I take all advice I get here very seriously. 
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 14,491Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro

    Everybody,

    Just so you all know, I'm not trying to be overly direct with Anthony here.  He sent me a message on the side and was frustrated, wanting a lot of feedback on his demos, and from more than just me, which is understandable.  I get a little bored of myself, too. 

    He wanted answers, so I listened and gave feedback that was very direct on what I thought I heard on these particular examples.  After his queen demo where just about everybody said "Hey, that's great" Anthony seemed a little bummed that we were just blowing smoke and not really giving him any substantive, genuine feedback relative to the subtle nuances of his delivery.  

    Fortunately, this time several of you participated as well, and Anthony now has a lot of fuel to run through his gears as he contemplates his next vocal strategies. 

    As long as we're all doing this from a sincere position of asking for help and giving of help, this is a good thing to do, from all sides of the equation.  Anthony is no slouch.  He asked.  We answered.  He defended.  We did not devour.  Other vocal sites may vary.

    The nature of feedback that will help us to improve is to point out the areas of opportunity for improvement, with malice toward none.  The fewer weak areas remaining, the stronger and more seamless the whole performance.  Step one is to identify those areas of opportunity in order to transform our weaknesses into our strengths.

    It's all good. 

    Most of us here remember how some aspects of our new voice were hard to reconcile with our old poor technique habits.  There is a period we go through where we are half-good and half-bad with our technique. It's part of the growth process.

    It's like getting through the passagio before you really know how.  One minute you're failing and the next minute you're sailing!

    And to answer another of your questions, Anthony, yes, Volumes One and Two are mostly foundational stages, mostly about formative scales and basic technique.  You begin to be more ready to transition into singing of songs AFTER you've been working out on Volume Three for a few months.  Yes, Months.  Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was your future ultimate voice.  But it's coming, and it's coming on strong.

    Thanks for your help, Cinema, Ken, ragnar...

    And thank you, Anthony for tolerating us.  We mean you only joy and success in your singing journey.

    Yes, you probably need some one-on-one time with Ken.  Then you can hit him up, in real-time, on issue after issue, and get down to the nth degree on some of the things that you get caught up or confused on.

     

    All the Best!

    Bob

     

     

     

  • AnthonyVAnthonyV Posts: 44Pro
    @highmtn, Bob, I wouldn't call it tolerating, you have no idea how grateful I am to know I have a place where I'm not going to be fed bullshit. It's healthy to recognize progress, but it's unhealthy to drop the ball because you think you've already made it. I always make sure my satisfaction level is 3 quarters full.. much like my rib cage LOL .. no but seriously, I think all of us need that extra push in whatever it is we do, sometimes we have to remember to keep our feet on solid ground cause that's the only way to learn and get anywhere ya know. 

    So yeah, thanks guys, and thanks Bob for taking the time out and responding to me and giving such an in depth critique. I will be getting a one on one with Ken, just not sure when. hopefully sooner than later. 

    I'll keep posting examples of stuff. I would totally interact and give my opinions on other people's stuff but I don't feel I'm quite at the level to be giving advice LOL .. But anyway, have a good day guys. 

    -Ant 
  • AnthonyVAnthonyV Posts: 44Pro
    @cgreen and yeah man I work out 5 times a week. along with clean eating.. And a lot of those workouts are circuits that have a cardio effect. I understand the importance of being in shape lol Besides, you gotta look good on stage, cmon. lol
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