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Am I able to cover this song?

artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
Hi everyone, I start by saying that i'm italian so forgive me if my english is bad haha. I'm a Low-Baritone (lowest chest note E2, highest chest note F4 (not controlled and with strain, so I can't go upper than that) and with head voice i go up until F#5). Recently i saw this cover made by Ken youtube.com/watch?v=3NeYhGz8iu0&t=0s (and by the way it's PERFECT, congratulations ken), so I tried to cover it but it's obviously out of my range, but then I realized that Ken is a baritone too.. so what I am wondering is: was Ken using head voice with a lot of distortion? Mixed/belt voice? Or just pure chest voice? second question: Is it possible for me, with a lot of training of course, to hit those raspy notes like Ken does? The highest note in the song is C5 i guess, so I need to gain 4 semitones (chest), is that possible? Thanks in advance to anyone who will answer me! Bye!

Comments

  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,650Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    Hi, artolink

    Ken is in fact a high baritone, but he has stretched his chest voice up far beyond C5. That is a process that takes some time doing strength-training exercises and gently stretching the voice all the way.

    So, Yes, it IS possible for baritones to sing higher notes than baritones are "supposed" to be able to sing. Ken teaches you how to do it in his course.

    It's not a fast process. It takes a lot of work over a period of time, but it can be done. You can do it with a mix or with pure chest, once you have built the range and stamina to do so.

    All the Best!

    Bob
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited November 2016
    Thank you highmtn! I'm saving some money to buy this amazing course, Ken is great! Can you
    recommend me some exercises for the warm up? I don't like the sirens exercises because they involve head voice too, and they are more useful to learn to connect your chest register with your head register.. i'm lookin' for some good chest warm up exercises, you know any?
  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Posts: 105Pro
    edited November 2016
    @highmtn Hey Bob, since you guys are discussing stretching chest voice, let me jump in for a quick question. :D I've always wondered: when you get to that point where you can sing beyond C5, how often can you do that? like, in a gig, are you able to sing those notes (G4-C5) over and over again? Because I'd imagine they're really demanding on the throat, since the air pressure is higher (even though there's less air involved). Which means that at some point you'd break or crack.
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited November 2016
    I guess it depends to your vocal type.. In the city where i live there is a singer that makes hard rock music and has got a natural high voice, he can hit notes like F#5 in CHEST and with grit, he is like a soprano. I know him personally and for him notes like G4-C5 are extremely easy, in fact he is one of the most talented singer I know (if you are curious his voice is EXACTLY the same of jocke berg from hardcore superstar).. Of course if you are a low-baritone like me reaching those notes over and over again in a concert will (sadly haha) be super hard, so it depends.
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,650Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    @vmalheiros,

    Initially, for me, those notes above G4 were impossible. Like a brick wall. All I could do was strain above that barrier. But I realized that I used to strain the same way above E4.

    So I worked on reducing the amount of chest tone I was trying to take upstairs with me. I worked on supporting more, so much more that I could reduce the pressure I was using to very controlled and regulated amounts, instead of just giving it "more". I learned to give it "just enough and no more" pressure, and the same with the girth. So instead of brutal, straining A4, I worked on a less agressive version of it, and that was much easier. Kind of like dipping your toe in the water instead of jumping in... Your body can start making adjustments and adaptations like that, much more easily than blasting or oversinging.

    So you work out a LOT on gently introducing your voice to singing like that. Not straining, only stretching, and did I say gently? Your support is your cushion and your shock absorber. Let your gut do ALL the heavy lifting, so your throat can be carried aloft by your full body's strength.

    Then you just add a song or two that goes up to A4. Later maybe a song that has some Bb's. They will be "iffy" the first few times, because that will be the "top" of your present range. You should be working out on scales that at least go up to Bb before attempting songs that go to G# or A.

    So after a few months of this, you'll be doing scales up to C5 or Eb5, however far you have the patience to keep doing hard work. That will give you the space you need to actually perform C5 or C#5 or however far you have worked up a margin of safety net above your performance notes.

    Initially after achieving this, you will only be able to venture up to B4 once or twice a night in a performance, and you'll be sweating bullets about it. Later on it will be no big deal, because you will have confidence from actually being able to consistently do it.

    This all takes time and immense patience with yourself. It's about growth. Ken's exercises are great voice-builders, and his instructions give you the path to get there. You have to do all the work.

    There are a lot of ways to go wrong if you don't have good guidance... That's what we do in the student areas of the forums...

    You'll know about how many times you want to sing those notes in a given performance. The audience will get tired of listening to you if all you do is sing your highest notes all the time. Some of the most beautiful notes lie in the E4 to G#4 range, so you'll want to use the full spectrum of your voice. But the longer you train on those notes that are possibly beyond your present range, the more familiar they will become to you, and it's mostly a matter of strength and endurance training that allows you to sing up there without wearing out. Support is always the means to the end of high-stamina singing.

    Bob
  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Posts: 105Pro
    edited November 2016
    @highmtn I went to see a Bon Jovi cover band play, and I was blown I away by the singer. The guy was singing A4's every 5 seconds all night. I thought to myself: man, this guy must have a super strong larynx. I could tell that he was singing with a lot of pressure, meaning he was really belting those notes. If I try to sing Living on a Prayer, I can't get to the end of it without cracking :D It was inspiring though. Thanks for the detailed answer, Bob.
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited November 2016
    I take this opportunity to make another question: I'd like to buy the full bundle course, but I have a really slow internet connection.. how much does the whole course weight in terms of GB?
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,650Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    If your internet is too slow, you can order the course on DVD. There is a lot of video, so the GB count is high and the download can take some time. It comes in sections, though, so you don't have to download it all in one sitting.
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    well if the GB count is less than 15GB I can download it without problem, but more than that no because I have 15GB x month and then my internet slows down, can you tell me exactly how much does the course weight?
  • coljacolja Posts: 45Member
    Ken is a high baritone??? Oh come on :( I always thought he was a low baritone! And is E2 really low for a low baritone? I thought my dad was a low baritone because he's singing C#2 and C2s, and he talks in E2... I hope I won't be the same type as my dad... First I thought I could work on it since "Ken was a bass baritone too!", but now I hear that he is a high baritone... Oh come on, haha!
  • blondiewalesblondiewales Posts: 196Pro
    edited December 2016
    I personally wouldn't be too discouraged by Ken's vocal type. In trained singers, vocal fach really speaks more to the timbre of one's voice rather than range. It might be a different story if you were trying to sing up beyond the 6th octave, but relatively few mainstream songs do this, and when they do it's usually as a "trick" rather than the majority of the song being there. Virtually all of Ken's long-time students stretch their chest voice to C5 without problem. I'm a low tenor and Ken's course has stretched my usable range to around four octaves. Ken's range still eclipses mine on both ends. Don't stress too much over what vocal type you are.
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2016
    My goal is to reach at least a C5 in chest, and hopefully an E5 in chest, actually my highest controlled note is F#4, G4 is really pushed.. can i make it? :/ how many years will it require? I know, these are the same boring questions of a beginner ahah, but i really need to make me an idea of what i will have to go through. (sorry for the english)
  • coljacolja Posts: 45Member
    artolink said:

    My goal is to reach at least a C5 in chest, and hopefully an E5 in chest, actually my highest controlled note is F#4, G4 is really pushed.. can i make it? :/ how many years will it require? I know, these are the same boring questions of a beginner ahah, but i really need to make me an idea of what i will have to go through. (sorry for the english)

    Entirely in chest? That's not possible. Yes, with a mix, but not with chest...
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,650Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    Yes, it's possible to sing a C5 in chest. As you go higher, depending on who you are, how you're singing, and your physical make-up, you will probably be mixing from about D5 on... But you can have a pretty Chesty Mix up towards G5 if you know what you're doing. And if you want to know how long it will take, that depends on a lot of variables, but I would measure it in years, not months or weeks.
  • coljacolja Posts: 45Member
    highmtn said:

    Yes, it's possible to sing a C5 in chest. As you go higher, depending on who you are, how you're singing, and your physical make-up, you will probably be mixing from about D5 on... But you can have a pretty Chesty Mix up towards G5 if you know what you're doing. And if you want to know how long it will take, that depends on a lot of variables, but I would measure it in years, not months or weeks.

    Holy damn... Are you serious? That's high man. That's well beyond a high tenor's second passaggio. Hell, that's beyond a COUNTER TENOR's second passaggio. Dang.
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited December 2016
    well I just want to extend my chest range, belting and mixing are good too but I need to pull up chest too at least to A4 to sing my genere of music, which is high hard rock, E2/F4 is not good enough for what i want to sing
  • artolinkartolink Posts: 8Member
    edited January 15
    Hi, sorry if i open this post again, the other day i was practicing a song with proper breath support and focusing carefully to breath with the diaphragm and i hit some high notes for my standards, like A#4, with a really bright sound in chest resonance.
    After I finished singing i had a bit of pain in my chest that lasted about 1/2 days, nothing too serious, but it felt like the pain in your muscles when you finish a workout.. after the pain went away i tried singing again and i was able to hit notes like G4 more reliably (normally my highest controlled note is E4 or F4). The question is: is that the correct way to stretch out your chest muscles? again, i wasn't shouting and i was singing with good breath support and with my diaphragm. (bad english i know)
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 11,650Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    Growing notes in the chest voice is a slow and careful process. You need to be careful and avoid strain. It's best to practice on vocal exercises, rather than songs. Exercises are designed to keep you within safer parameters with your voice. Songs can go anywhere and you may not be prepared vocally to handle those combinations vocally if you haven't worked your way up to them, using proper methods.

    It's impossible to say what caused your pain from the information you've provided, but you need to look back over what you had been doing and try to avoid things that may be causing you pain. We work at extending our range slowly and carefully, because notes don't appear instantly. They grow. That takes time.
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