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Losing Lower notes after singing high, in head voice?

mistic_impmistic_imp Posts: 4Member
Hi I amnew here. I am female Mezzo soprano / soprano? ( undetermined exactly yet. )

I have some classical training but have started over the last year to explore singing contemporary and rock and metal type stuff ( hence why i ended up here, looking for good info. LOL) I have a decent lower range, and continue to work on my upper most notes which are the most trouble for me. I notice after I practice head voice and or sing high songs. That i lose some of my lower range and some times my speaking voice gets a softness to it.

I have no issues with chest voice or belting with this, and also i suppose i could say i am learning to use " call " register pretty high up with no issues,
but head voice gives me some trouble.

By lower range loss i mean my lower most notes, which are b2/c3 until i work on singing upper range a5- c6 atfer i practice or sing alot of notes up there my lowest notes will tend to be a c#3/d3/d#3 . I also notice that my voice some times is softer after singing" soprano " stuff. when talking to other teachers about this most say it is normal and happens to most people due to vocal tension differences in singing high and low notes.

I am wondering if there is a strategy to practicing that will allow you to be able to learn sing high and low stuff without losing any range upon warm up or after singing higher for a period of time etc. or if this will go away once i get better at singing high? I am still working on being able to sing in my highest voice and know i hold alot of tension still a5+ so that may be what contributes to my problem.

However i am also wondering, if this is common for " sopranos and mezzos? ) I wonder sometimes still, if i am in fact a "mezzo" or "soprano" as other teachers have said i am, as i can sing lower stuff all day long with no issues, but the high range continues to make me tired and give me tension issues. I wonder if i could just be an untrained contralto who is being pigeon holed into mezzo soprano/soprano?


If anyone can way in on this, it would be helpful. TY!

Comments

  • Gaston_JaureguiGaston_Jauregui Posts: 492Moderator, Enrolled, 2.0 PRO
    @mistic_imp hi
    well, it´s pretty common to lose chest when you train a lot of head voice, the only way to maintain both is to train both, head voice actually deteriorates chest, so you have to train carefully, to not lose you range in time, the KTVA program covers it very well, support and good placement as well

    its hard to know if you are a soprano or mezzo , would be good if you post an audio scale AH as ken does them, to figure it out, usually where your passaggio starts determines if you are mezzo or alto etc.. except when the voice has not been rightly trained, or atrophied

    let me post you some videos where Ken talks about this:

    Head voice


    head voice

    chest voice

    support

    hope this helps


  • mistic_impmistic_imp Posts: 4Member
    edited October 28
    hmm ok ty for these.. :) I will look them over. I have been watching kens videos and everything, but want some clarification.

    QUESTION: would loss happen at the bottom of the chest voice range ?? i would assume it would be your high chest that would be effected by head voice singing? ken never really says just how it is effected. I would like more info on that topic, like what symptoms would be and how chest would be effected by head voice singing?

    maybe ken can do a video just on that and how what exactly happens to men and women?


    And also, like, i have notes fine in the morning pre-warm up or singing. Lowe notes always comes back even after an hour or two, but this only seems to happen after i sing in my head voice for extended periods of time and then i try to sing very low, and well low notes are gone... it's like my voice can't get back to the beefy chest sounds on the bottom most notes due to being stretched out in upper head voice.

    I am wondering if there is a way to train it so i can keep my low notes after singing high for a while.

    Currently i practice exercises in head and chest, and warm up my chest voice well first before i do any head voice activities. I try not to sing in upper head voice ( a5+) too long, or to much because i find that it makes my voice feel tired. Lower head voice is fine ( c4-g5) and dosen't appear to make this issue come up as much.

    again, also If i sing call register belt voice in my upper range, I also do not notice loss of low notes, but sometimes you need to use head voice, like if i am to sing a b5 c6 because can't belt that high!


    i do notice a range shift slightly after warm up... because PRE warm up my low notes are much stronger and i can sing like b2 with strength and most days make sound down to a2 ( although i wouldn't call it stable or useable)

    After warming up and sing for a while, c3/c#3 becomes my lowest note (varies) b2 is there but breathy.. and if i sing songs with a higher tessutra in my upper most headvoice a5+ for extended periods, ( a couple songs or like 10 -15 min) my lowest notes become d3/e3 ( depending) ( b2will b gone and C#3 breathy or not connected) It seems if i wait or do lower stuff after the low will come back, but it take a while.

    so , question is, I'd like to work to keep my morning low voice if possible and be able to sing up to c6 with ease in headvoice eventually LOL but idk if i can have my cake and eat it too!

    hoping others will chime in, as no one really seems to have a concrete answer. but maybe, it's just how it is. IDK?


    i'll consider uploading some scales or something, i don't have best recording set up but will see what i can do.

  • Gaston_JaureguiGaston_Jauregui Posts: 492Moderator, Enrolled, 2.0 PRO
    usually we tend to lose the low notes when get to very high ones, because the placement gets too high, so we have to lower it without losing the brightness of the sound consciously other wise its gonna be harder to find the placement, also to be changing placements from a high part to a very low part its gonna take a couple of seconds to re-place it in a same song, so I would suggest you to work on the brightness of the sound "its the Law ah" from low to high and try to be very conscious of the placement on every note, and yes try doing some scales to hear what you are doing :) hope this helps
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 2362.0 PRO
    @mistic_imp: I am absolutely with @Gaston_Jauregui.

    Are you already on the course? - If yes you should follow these instructions the get access to the restricted students area of this forum. There you will find tons of informations on these topics. A lot of your questions have already been addressed there.

    Nice to have you here,
    Doc
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 1,516Pro, 2.0 PRO
    To answer some of your questions it might help to include what type of warmup, and what exercises your are doing for a daily routine. We as students here have a specific regiment that we follow so your methods may be different, and we may not be any help to you at all.

    Peace, Tony
  • highmtnhighmtn Posts: 13,715Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro
    You have to maintain a balance in your workouts and warmups. If you want robust low notes, then you have to warm up on lower notes. If you want to have the top of your range warmed up, then you have to wake it up. If you want both extremes, then you have to work them, in balance, as you also must work and wake up the middle. Use it or lose it. Within the same day, you have to work both if you want both.

    Your assessment of wanting both being eating your cake but still having it is accurate.

    It's like you want your ice cream to be freezing cold and your fudge topping to be boiling hot. Well guess what the boiling fudge does to the Frozen Ice Cream? That's right! It makes it delicious, BUT the ice cream warms up a little and the fudge loses some heat to the ice cream.

    Head voice "tears at" that nice tessitura you get when you get your highest CHEST notes as crisp as possible. Taking the Chest voice and warming up to build your lowest notes tends to take away a bit of your highest head voice.

    You can grow your overall range to be lower AND higher than it presently is, but the WIDER you go, the more work it becomes to maintain the entire thing, like a bridge that gets longer and longer.

    Imagine a "rope bridge" (think Indiana Jones) that is short, compared to one that is super long, going across the entire Grand Canyon... Which one do you think will be more stable?

    So it becomes a matter of how much are you willing to work on what areas of your voice, and in the end, which areas are most important to you as a vocalist? The more you want, the more you have to maintain. A small house may be easier to keep clean than a mansion, if you are the one who has to do the work. So how spectacular do you want your range to be, and just be prepared to maintain what you want to use, up to the standards you want to uphold. It's simple. Or as complex as you want it to be.

    The more you want, the more you need to do. There is plenty of work to do.

    Chances are that if you need to sing low on a given day, you may also need to sing high, unless you are the bass or the contralto.

    The cool thing is that if you are an energetic person and like working towards accomplishing difficult goals, you can take it just about anywhere you want, through disciplined workouts and perseverance.

    Bob
  • mistic_impmistic_imp Posts: 4Member
    Hi thanks for the info. I will continue to work on my high and low voice and hope it works out. Maybe i can post stuff in the forum if your really active about giving tips? not currently on the course, but want to get it once i get some extra cash.

    i have been watching all of kens vids and live streams trying to learn what i can from that.

    hopeing eventually that i will be able to get my voice where i want it to be. but i just may never have those super high high soprano head voice notes, it just may be the way it is.
  • Gaston_JaureguiGaston_Jauregui Posts: 492Moderator, Enrolled, 2.0 PRO
    @mistic_imp you will get the high soprano notes if you train the program, but trust me this doesnt come in a month, its discipline, some people do it in less time some longer but in the end, its the training what gets you there, hope this helps
  • mistic_impmistic_imp Posts: 4Member
    thanks i realize this. Hopeing to be able to afford to coruse at some point.. right now wtaching everything free i can thats free. My notes are coming along, i just always wondered about this and if there was a way to really have a do both with out loosing the very top or very bottom of range.
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