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Hello from Germany

ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
Hello everyone. I have to confess that I am a bit shy regarding singing. I bet most of you are very talented or skilled, maybe targeting singing as a profession. I am just a guy that always thought that I cannot sing. As a child I was kind like this angelic voice dude, high pitch, but no support or guidiance, liked to sing and being embarrassed when being forced to sing to relatives. After my puberty I lost all of my pitch, i thought. Now I am 44 years old and inspired by an artist that sings so well, low and high registers ( he´s a god), i practiced for only two days in my car while commuting to work. All of the sudden I unleashed very high head voice notes that I forgot for over 30 years. Being very amazed by this but also scared of the voice brakes after such one hour "fooling arounds" I wonder myself if I should consider singing for me again or if I am just a hopeless case. I also don´t want to destroy anything i have. I really hope to find mind liked people here and maybe good hints, what to do and what not. In case that I have potential (what i doubt) I will even consider to join classes of Ken Tamplin. He is so versatile, how amazing is that?

Comments

  • HuduVuduHuduVudu Posts: 4982.0 PRO
    Welcome @Zhen.

    I think that you will find that you aren't so different. Many here started "late" singing. That hasn't stopped us. If you have the love of singing then you are a singer and no one can say otherwise. It is my opinion that people aren't born with talent, they are only born with desire. That means all singers are made not born. I believe that hard work and desire are all a person needs to be good at anything.

    I think that this video backs me up.



  • videoacevideoace Posts: 1,754Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Singing isn't just a god given talent. It's like learning anything. You need to have the right information. That's #1.
    You then have to put the information to use, and practice it until you understand it, and can do it correctly.

    Sure some people are naturally in tune with the music, and it seems easy for them, but the vast majority of singers have to work at it, and work at it, and.............

    I guess it just depends on how much singing means to you, and if it is something you seriously want to pursue.

    Peace, Tony
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
    Thank you so much for your feedback. Most of your words are very much what I hoped for regarding this singing topic. The video is just hilarious, as we all know how good Ed is with singing and guitar playing! :) Bth, I am playing guitar too, but I am famous for my Iphone Piano Songs on youtube ::))))
  • Gaston_JaureguiGaston_Jauregui Posts: 606Moderator, Enrolled, 2.0 PRO
    @Zhen yes its true, singing can be learned, I couldnt sing anything when I started, but I started playing guitar since I could nt sing and something in my head kept telling me, why in anything we do we can learn to do it? why can I learn to play guitar and not sing? so that made me try to match the pitch of my voice with the pitch of the strings, and yes it took my a while but I made it and then I started taking vocal lessons, buying books, but honestly KTVA is the best program I found and still is by far the best, and has taught me more than any teacher, and trust me Ive taken many vocal lessons, so yes singing can be learnt
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 4612.0 PRO
    Hallo @Zhen,

    ich bin Marco aus der Nähe von Ulm. Ich bin seit 5 Monaten dabei. Bevor ich den Kurs begonnen habe, konnte ich echt keinen einzigen geraden Ton singen. Und ich meine wirklich keinen: Null, Zero, Nada, Nulla. Der höchste Ton, den ich singen konnte, war ein zweigestrichenes Fis. Mittlerweile ist das dreigestrichene C, wenn ich warm gesungen bin, sicher zu erreichen. An sehr guten Tagen sogar das D oder Es.

    Ich habe mir den Kurs zu meinem 48. Geburtstag gescheckt. Wenn Du sehen möchtest, wie weit ich in der dieser Zeit gekommen bin - aber wehe Du lachst: :smile:

    http://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/10370/christmas-songs-2018

    Liebe Grüße,
    Marco
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
    Hallo Marco, als erstes vorweg: Ich würde niemals darüber lachen, wenn jemand singt! Ich habe größten Respekt für den Mut den Sänger aufbringen müssen. Ich bin selber sehr schüchtern, was das Singen vor anderen angeht. Ich habe vor 24 Jahren mal Gitarre in einer Band mit Freunden gespielt, ich habe unsere Auftritte gehasst. Als Gitarist (mit beschränkten Skills) steht man auch noch ganz vorne auf der Bühne vor der Menge. Ich bin immer gestorben dabei. :))))
    Aber ich finde das Singen noch mal ein Schritt mehr an Überwindung kostet. Ich finde es super, dass du diesen Schritt gemacht hast, dich so deutlich verbessert hast und es auch der Öffentlichkeit hier zeigst! Du bekommst kein Lachen von mir, sondern Respekt!
    Nun zu mir. Ich habe nicht so das Problem das alle meine Töne schief sind, sondern für über 30 Jahre dachte ich, dass meine Stimme seit dem Stimbruch kaputt ist und ich sowieso eine schlechte Stimme habe. Ich dachte auch, dass Gesangsunterricht nichts bringen würde bei mir. Ich könnte zwar lernen die Töne besser zu treffen, vlt den ein oder anderen Ton dazu bekommen, aber meine Stimme würde weiterhin schlecht klingen. Seitdem ich vor ein paar Tagen inspiriert durch einen Sänger im Auto rumgequietscht habe, ist irgend etwas in meinem Hals passiert. Ich habe eine (so glaube ich) ziemliche Range freigeschaltet. Ich glaube das tiefste was ich hinbekomme ist ein F2, dass höchste (Kopfstimme) C6,D6 und manchmal E6. Ich kann bisher nicht viel zu meiner Chest oder Mixt-voice sagen, da ich das hier zu Hause nicht üben kann (ich wohne in einem Haus das sehr hellhörig ist). Ich habe jetzt schon zweimal wie einen Stimmbruch erlitten, nachdem ich "leise" rumgequietscht habe. Ich weiß nicht, ob das einfach Muskeln im Hals sind, die dann irgendwann aufgeben, ob das normal ist, oder ob ich mir gerade schade. Vermutlich mache ich gerade alles falsch, was man falsch machen kann. :D
    Viele Grüße,
    Frank
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 4612.0 PRO
    Hi Frank, @Zhen

    diesen "zweiten Stimmbruch" nennt man secundo passagio. Hier im Kurs lernen wir mit Open Throat Technik durch diese secundo passagio durch zu singen. Das ist echt cool. Am Anfang habe ich gejodelt wie eine österreichische Bergziege. Mittlerweile hört sich das so an:



    Die "Students Area" hier im Forum ist wirklich klasse, da gibt es total erfahrene Mitglieder, die einem schnell, kompetent und vor allem sehr net weiterhelfen. Also, wenn Du Dich für das Singen interessierst, dann kann ich Dir den Kurs absolut empfehlen. Und der Preis ist absolut unschlagbar. Vor wenigen Tagen ist ein Kollege aus Berlin ( @Klaus_Trapp ) zu uns gestossen. Vielleicht kann der Dir ja auch noch sein Feedback geben. Aber Du müsstest schon bereit dazu sein, etwas Zeit in den Kurs zu investieren. Ich singe jeden Tag (7 Tage/Woche) mindestens 1 Stunde.

    Liebe Grüße,
    Marco
  • VocalityVocality Posts: 1102.0 PRO
    edited December 5
    Hi @Zhen

    Just like you 44 years old when I started to learn to properly sing, only been on the course for just over a month now and already noticed a significant change in my voice. Theres some great support here on the forums when you get stuck the experts will help to keep you on the right track to great singing.

    Go for it!!!!

    Vocality
  • Klaus_TrappKlaus_Trapp Posts: 162.0 PRO
    Hallo @Zhen, a lot of Germans (me included) seem to have this problem that somehow in school or in the family we lose the respect for our singing voice, at that age where the voice cracks. it must be a bug in the educational system... you are right why could it not be learned, like playin guitar. What I did, I just started the free KTVA youtube scales and watched Ken's tips for singing, and there were changes after a week. Then after a few more weeks, I decided to get the full course because the youtube stuff is only pieces of the puzzle, and the course is the whole thing in a system. I kind of regret not having started it earlier to be honest, so I would definitely say go for it if you can afford it. But you will have to invest time as @doc_ramadani said. if you are motivated to do it, it will be well worth it. I think the trick is just to have confidence in your voice and just sing (for example, you will have to get used to your neighbours hearing it. but if you are singing in the flat anyway, it makes no difference).

    my routine when I was doing it on the free YT lessons was like this:










    (I just happened to do it in this order, I am not suggesting that this is correct practise by KTVA standards, it was just my stab at puzzling together a warmup/training routine from the YT content. It was beneficial for me and convinced me to start the proper course)

    I would watch them all first (can be done bit by bit) and then the second time round, i just skipped to the exercises (but actually, you want to hear as much of what Ken has to say as possible, also rewatching the same instructions from time to time because it is so much information there is no way you can remember and use it in one sitting). then I did one hour of this per day (it takes about that time if you just go to the exercises. It will be tricky to jump exactly to the exercises because there are no markers of course, but my tip would be, scroll through the video and check for when Ken has the guitar on his lap, because then it is exercise time :) How I said, I did it for several weeks and then I was sure the course would be helpful. Viele Grüße, Klaus
  • Klaus_TrappKlaus_Trapp Posts: 162.0 PRO
    sorry, I didn't know it was gonna show the giant preview windows...
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 4612.0 PRO
    Helo @Zhen, Hi Frank,
    Hi Klaus, @Klaus_Trapp

    @Klaus_Trapp: Very kind that you joined the discussion and put your personal experience in here. Personally I am more than happy with the forums. The people here are so helpful. I learned so many things form them in the students area.

    Klaus presented his daily routine before the course so well. I joined the course without ever having done any vocal exercises before. Gosh, you do can not imagine how bad I was. First, I was overwhelmed by the informations I got. But it became more and more a great picture. And that picture is expanding and expanding and expanding ... with every scale ... scale ... scale ... scale ... scale ... :-)

    :) How I said, I did it for several weeks and then I was sure the course would be helpful. Viele Grüße, Klaus

    Klaus, klasse, dass Du Dich da eingeklickt hast <3

    Marco

  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member

    Hi Frank, @Zhen

    diesen "zweiten Stimmbruch" nennt man secundo passagio. Hier im Kurs lernen wir mit Open Throat Technik durch diese secundo passagio durch zu singen. Das ist echt cool. Am Anfang habe ich gejodelt wie eine österreichische Bergziege. Mittlerweile hört sich das so an:



    Die "Students Area" hier im Forum ist wirklich klasse, da gibt es total erfahrene Mitglieder, die einem schnell, kompetent und vor allem sehr net weiterhelfen. Also, wenn Du Dich für das Singen interessierst, dann kann ich Dir den Kurs absolut empfehlen. Und der Preis ist absolut unschlagbar. Vor wenigen Tagen ist ein Kollege aus Berlin ( @Klaus_Trapp ) zu uns gestossen. Vielleicht kann der Dir ja auch noch sein Feedback geben. Aber Du müsstest schon bereit dazu sein, etwas Zeit in den Kurs zu investieren. Ich singe jeden Tag (7 Tage/Woche) mindestens 1 Stunde.

    Liebe Grüße,
    Marco

    Wow! Das ist schon beeindruckend! Es hört sich genauso an wie in dem Video von Ken Tamplin. Ich kann mir vorstellen, dass du damit deine Chest Voice oder Mixed Voice schon gut erweitert hast. Auch die Transition zwischen Mixed und Head hört sich sehr smooth an. Super! :)
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 4612.0 PRO
    Hi Frank, wenn Du Fragen hast, dann kannst Du auch gerne anrufen. Ich schicke Dir meine Handynummer als persönlich Nachricht. Das siehst Du dann rechts oben im Forum angezeigt. (sieht aus wie so ein Ablagekästchen).

    Liebe Grüße,
    Marco
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
    Vocality said:

    Hi @Zhen

    Just like you 44 years old when I started to learn to properly sing, only been on the course for just over a month now and already noticed a significant change in my voice. Theres some great support here on the forums when you get stuck the experts will help to keep you on the right track to great singing.

    Go for it!!!!

    Vocality

    Thank you very much for encouraging me! I really believe that the courses are great and I am not afraid to pay for it. It is more like that I have to figure out for myself how I can do this exercises... at home it will not be possible, you need to use some volume for it. I was thinking, if I could put it on my phone or tablet and do that somewhere on an empty parking lot during evenings in my car. ^^
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member

    Hallo @Zhen, a lot of Germans (me included) seem to have this problem that somehow in school or in the family we lose the respect for our singing voice, at that age where the voice cracks. it must be a bug in the educational system... you are right why could it not be learned, like playin guitar. What I did, I just started the free KTVA youtube scales and watched Ken's tips for singing, and there were changes after a week. Then after a few more weeks, I decided to get the full course because the youtube stuff is only pieces of the puzzle, and the course is the whole thing in a system. I kind of regret not having started it earlier to be honest, so I would definitely say go for it if you can afford it. But you will have to invest time as @doc_ramadani said. if you are motivated to do it, it will be well worth it. I think the trick is just to have confidence in your voice and just sing (for example, you will have to get used to your neighbours hearing it. but if you are singing in the flat anyway, it makes no difference).

    my routine when I was doing it on the free YT lessons was like this:










    (I just happened to do it in this order, I am not suggesting that this is correct practise by KTVA standards, it was just my stab at puzzling together a warmup/training routine from the YT content. It was beneficial for me and convinced me to start the proper course)

    I would watch them all first (can be done bit by bit) and then the second time round, i just skipped to the exercises (but actually, you want to hear as much of what Ken has to say as possible, also rewatching the same instructions from time to time because it is so much information there is no way you can remember and use it in one sitting). then I did one hour of this per day (it takes about that time if you just go to the exercises. It will be tricky to jump exactly to the exercises because there are no markers of course, but my tip would be, scroll through the video and check for when Ken has the guitar on his lap, because then it is exercise time :) How I said, I did it for several weeks and then I was sure the course would be helpful. Viele Grüße, Klaus

    Hallo Klaus,
    vielen lieben Dank für die Links. Ich glaube wirklich, dass die Kurse super sind und mich schreckt auch nicht ab dafür zu bezahlen. Ich überlege derzeit nur, wie ich sie sinnvoll nutzen könnte. Zu Hause kann ich die Lessons nicht üben, es ist viel zu hellhörig hier in einem mehr Familienhaus. Ich habe schon überlegt, ob ich mir die Kurse auf´s Phone packen kann und dann im Auto auf einem leeren Parkplatz Abends üben kann. Ich habe leider keine Proberaum zur Verfügung.

    Viele Grüße,
    Frank
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
    I want to thank everyone so far. I am new to the singing topic and this forum. I am flattered by your encouragement and welcoming me so nicely! :)
  • Klaus_TrappKlaus_Trapp Posts: 162.0 PRO
    Hi Frank, no worries, glad to hear I could help a little bit. About where to practice: it's correct that through thin walls, your neighbours would hear something. but the training doesn't have to be crazy loud or anything. if you are worried to be too shy for them to hear it, that is one thing you have to overcome yourself. if you are worried about legal issues with the neighbours: you are allowed up to three hours of making music in your flat in Germany, even if the neighbours hear it (that is, during daytime, you can't do that at night of course). the idea with the car is good too. I think in one of the videos Ken even talks about singing into his pillow when he is in a thin-walled hotel (not sure how efficient that would be in the long run though). I'd imagine you could do a mix of all of these tactics, to balance the impact on your neighbours. I hope you can find a good solution! Good luck

    here is a link to a story about the court ruling regarding the "noise" in a flat: https://www.antenne.de/experten-tipps/geld-und-recht/bgh-urteil-so-viel-musizieren-ist-zumutbar
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member
    Today I bought and downloaded the fundamental course 2.0. Of course I took a quick look to almost everything in it. Very nice! Tomorrow I will start with my first sit-ups! :))) Haven´t expected that for the beginning, but this yoga-kind like breath technique sounds very reasonable and I will go through all of that!
    I am happy so far that I eventually purchased it, now there is a lot of work ahead of me! :)
  • ZhenZhen Posts: 9Member

    Hi Frank, no worries, glad to hear I could help a little bit. About where to practice: it's correct that through thin walls, your neighbours would hear something. but the training doesn't have to be crazy loud or anything. if you are worried to be too shy for them to hear it, that is one thing you have to overcome yourself. if you are worried about legal issues with the neighbours: you are allowed up to three hours of making music in your flat in Germany, even if the neighbours hear it (that is, during daytime, you can't do that at night of course). the idea with the car is good too. I think in one of the videos Ken even talks about singing into his pillow when he is in a thin-walled hotel (not sure how efficient that would be in the long run though). I'd imagine you could do a mix of all of these tactics, to balance the impact on your neighbours. I hope you can find a good solution! Good luck

    here is a link to a story about the court ruling regarding the "noise" in a flat: https://www.antenne.de/experten-tipps/geld-und-recht/bgh-urteil-so-viel-musizieren-ist-zumutbar

    Hello Klaus,
    it is not that I worry too much that the others could hear me. It is more like that the walls are so light that you can hear almost everything here, not only a bit. So everyone in this house adapted to it and tries to respect that. I don´t want to bother others here. But Anyway, today i bought the course and checked out a lot of content out of curiosity. I am relieved as it looks like that most of it can be done with normal volume and don´t need to scream like crazy. Except maybe the noise sounds in the end. But I am not that much into that noise sounds and this topic is far away from me. I will start at the very beginning and do it over and over again. And if I need to do something with more power, I think i will do that in the car somewhere. Instead of a pillow I already used a kitchen towel the other days, but that does not really work well, as it changes the sound so much, that you can´t even judge any vowel you are doing. ^^
    But yeah, tomorrow there´ll be "sit-up" - sessions!
    Best,
    Frank
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