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The Joker

Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
Hi guys here's my recording of The Joker as recommended by Doc. I'm singing it two half-steps below the original. Please provide suggestions/observations.

In this demo I'm using my Shure microphone which is coming out of a PA but ultimately everything is just being recorded on my cell phone video recorder and microphone, so does the Shure microphone not even make a difference?

**EDIT** I re-recorded the song in the original key, posted further below

Michael

@HuduVudu @doc_ramadani @videoace @Vocality @bentk @iking @Diego


Comments

  • VocalityVocality Posts: 1912.0 PRO
    @Michael4000 my setup I use a Sennhieser dynamic mic connected to a small mixing console then use the monitor output to my Maudio Sound card for recording and the main output goes to my monitors. I Get good clear recordings.

    At the end of the day its the source i.e. your voice will make the biggest difference, sound quality may be affected depending how good the mic is on your cell phone!!.

    Like the demo your voice sounds good do you intend to build up from 2 half steps?

    Greets
    George
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    @Michael4000 The problem with singing a whole step down like that is, you're not pushing your voice the way the song is intended. It loses it's feel, and becomes lifeless. I would suggest trying it again, but in the original key, and see how it sounds.

    @Vocality You will get better sounding recordings if you run the "MAIN OUTPUTS" to the "SOUNDCARD", and the "MONITOR OUTPUTS" to the "MONITORS".


    Peace, Tony
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    edited December 2018
    Ok @videoace Here it is in the original key, just for you Tony

    @Vocality

  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    I thought it sounded better. What did you think?

    On the higher notes, Try to hold more air back with diaphragm. That will give it more of a robust sound, but overall I thought it was a better version.

    Peace, Tony
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    edited December 2018
    @videoace I find it hard to evaluate my own singing. I thought they were both just okay, the second one was a little better though. You were right.

    The stuff about holding back the air with the diaphragm is volume 3 right?
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    No. Diaphragmatic support is taught from day one. That is what your breath support is. Your diaphragm regulates how much air passes across the cords. (I'm only on Volume 2 myself.)

    Volume 3 I do believe introduces glottal compression.

    There are other ways of holding air back, but for where we are in the program we're instructed to hold the air back with the diaphragm.

    Peace
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    Haven't heard this song in a dogs age!

    You're straining more on the second one , I thought. What mods were you using?
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    @videoace

    good feedback, as usual , videoace. but not sure what you mean by this?

    you're not pushing your voice the way the song is intended.

    Do mean as Doc intended?

    I'm guessing the original singer keyed it for his voice.
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    @iking good question about the mods. I don't think I was paying much attention to that. I will have to revisit.
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    What I meant by that was: When you sing in a lower register, you don't use as much support so you aren't pushing the vocal the way the original was intended.
    Now if he had stronger support that would be possible, but if your going to use stronger support anyway, why not do it in the proper key?

    Make sense?

    Peace
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    I agree, when I listened back I thought the notes in the lower register were a bit weak. I also thought the song was pitchy in some spots.
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    "It's the engine that drives everything".
    When you use the proper support no matter the key, it will sound stronger, you will be able to hold pitch better, longer, and your voice will last longer.

    Peace
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    When you sing in a lower register, you don't use as much support so you aren't pushing the vocal the way the original was intended.


    Well interesting comment. But why forfeit support at any key? For the purposes of this course, yes, I can see boosting the key. Good point.

    But you suggested it seems lifeless. if he was going to karaoke tonight. I'm no authority, but IMHO, I personally would suggest:

    1. Sing it in the lower key.
    2. Add more feeling/ conviction.

    @ videoace.

    I thought you said you were working on some of Elvis' famous low ballads? Your gonna need A LOT of support to try to equal the King.







  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    My speaking voice is in the "Elvis" register ha ha. Also his voice is "covered" in the song I was singing so it didn't have to be really bright like other vocalists.

    Peace
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    Listening back at the piano, the only notes I think I would need to be modified would be on the lyrics "some people" which are A4 G4 and F4. The rest of the notes should not need modification, am I correct?
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    I get the feeling that neither one of you is getting what I'm saying so I'll try this, and that will be that ha ha.

    Lets say you played the saxaphone.
    In order to produce notes properly with it, you need to push so much air across the open reeds. If you push too much, well on a saxaphone the sound will bend because the air will give way before the metal, but with your voice the cords will give way instead of air.

    So the moral of the story is: If you don't use proper support, you won't be able to produce the notes properly, just like the sax.

    Peace
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    why not do it in the proper key?

    Well, I certainly get what your saying about the sax. Some instruments have particular
    ranges.

    Most guitarists here have mentioned lowering the strings - " lowering the key" on their guitar. The first known rocker to do it, was Jimi"

    So Jimi likely sang a half step lower. Was he not in " the proper key? "

    Purple Haze is in my brain! lol.
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    @videoace I definitely get what you're saying about support on the lower notes.

    Here is Daughtry's version of Rocket Man. He sings it two half steps below the original key. Do you think this lessens his performance?

  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Where you are modifying will depend on if you've stretched the mods out any. (waiting longer to use them)
    But yes, you will probably be modifying the F4, and G4 with aw, and maybe a little oo(hook) on the A4

    Peace
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Daughtry is using good support with cord closure to get the desired notes/textures. It's all about support. It regulates the air.

    He must have his guitar tuned really low. If you notice he has a capo on the second fret of his guitar.

    Peace
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    Got it. So you feel that lowering the key is okay with proper support and technique?
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    edited December 2018
    I'm still having some trouble wrapping my head around the idea of needing to sing a song in its original key. What if I wanted to sing a Whitney Houston song? @highmtn Thoughts on this?
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Any key will sound good with proper support. You have to figure out how to regulate it for chest, mix, and head voice, and The diaphragm does that.

    With me, I like to push myself. If I am going to change keys, it's going to be higher. (which I don't) But I'm always pushing for that extra note, everyday.
    For example: There is a song I like to sing called "Wildfire" by Michael Murphy. To warm up for it, I will do the song "Only Love Can Break Your Heart" by Neil Young a couple of times first. After doing that, "Wildfire" seems like a breeze to sing. That's why I mentioned practicing it in a higher key, so when you DO sing it in the right key, It's that much easier.

    Each person is different. If it helps you to start off lower, that's cool as long as you get to the same place.

    Peace
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    I appreciate everyone's opinions on this. I think it's a good discussion!
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    I don't know this singer. But I thought it was a wonderful rendition.

    Note,: Elton still sings his famous hits, but sadly with his tragic vocal decline, not in
    " the original keys."
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    If youtube will let me, I'll try to video myself doing rocketman on the piano. (in the original key) ha ha

    Peace
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    I've noticed that on Elton's more recent live performances of Rocket Man, he sometimes keeps the original key but just doesn't sing the really high notes. For example on the word high he actually goes down instead of going up.
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    @videoace that would be awesome. I haven't had any problems uploading covers on YouTube.
  • videoacevideoace Posts: 2,112Pro, 2.0 PRO
    Every time I try to post something it gets blocked, but I still have an old account that might let me post it. I'll try it tomorrow.

    Peace
  • ikingiking Posts: 330Pro
    edited December 2018

    Every time I try to post something it gets blocked,



    yes, sadly youtube now blocks anything not in the proper key. .. ;)

    just kiddin :)

  • HuduVuduHuduVudu Posts: 6342.0 PRO
    Daughtrey's key drop was an artistic one not because he doesn't have the range. It changes the feel of the song, from a cheery sound to a questioning sound.
  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    @Ken Tamplin I know you are super busy but if you have time, can you please provide feedback on my song and your thoughts on changing key?
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 833Administrator, 2.0 PRO, hidden_admin
    Hi @Michael4000: Man, watching your videos made my really happy. It put me back 20 years. Thanks for that. And you are improving massively with every new recording.

    And very nice, that you get so much feedback from the others. I liked to one in the original key more. No only because of the fancy sunglasses. Your voice sounded a little more solid and felt more confident to me.

    I have still have to work on support myself. And I think this is what you should address the most.

    But you are really growing.

    Doc
  • VocalityVocality Posts: 1912.0 PRO
    @Michael4000 yep 2nd is better sound, just to confirm have you moved to volume 2?

    Regard George
  • VocalityVocality Posts: 1912.0 PRO
    videoace said:

    @Michael4000 The problem with singing a whole step down like that is, you're not pushing your voice the way the song is intended. It loses it's feel, and becomes lifeless. I would suggest trying it again, but in the original key, and see how it sounds.

    @Vocality You will get better sounding recordings if you run the "MAIN OUTPUTS" to the "SOUNDCARD", and the "MONITOR OUTPUTS" to the "MONITORS".


    Peace, Tony

    @videoace thanks for the advice there my main outputof the mixer is xlr ports my sound card has full size jacks, however it has a record out 2 phonos I have an adaptor lead for that so should be ok?

    Regards
    George

  • Michael4000Michael4000 Posts: 488STREAMING PRO
    @Vocality yes I've been on volume 2 for about 5 weeks now
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