Can you sing with a tongue-tie?

meggustah

It recently came to my attention I have a tongue-tie and I can't stick out or move my tongue freely as much as I want to (for example I can't touch the top of my upper jaw with my tongue. If you're a person who has a tongue-tie, please share your experience with it! All the love

HuduVudu

Is this a diagnosed condition?

doc_ramadani

Hi @meggustah,

I am a medical doctor. The indication for an surgical resection (reduction) of the tongue-tie in normally done by a pine surgeon. Did you consult a surgeon? - It is normally only done on adults if the patient has severe problems with the tie.

Doc

meggustah

@HuduVudu I mean, I can post a pic and it's super obvious that I have it. I've been wondering why I feel like my tongue is always stuck to the bottom of my jaw and it's not that flexible, even if I have tried to stretch as far as I can.

@doc_ramadani Oh I'm so lucky! I've read I have to go to a ENT to check it out. I've also wondered why I stuttered from time to time where I am trying not to and being aware (I practice meditation every day). I ended up reading on that and it seems my "String" from the bottom of the jaw is big. Can you describe other severe problems so I can tell you if I experienced them?

HuduVudu

... seems my "String" from the bottom of the jaw is big.

This is not the information that I found online.

It seems to me that having this condition would help you more than hurt you in singing, because it will keep your tongue pinned to the bottom of your mouth so that it is out of the way of the open throat and it would also help in keeping your consonants soft so that you can keep your throat open. I don't really see this as an impediment to singing.

meggustah

@HuduVudu
I thought the same thing but check this: "It definitely can negatively affect your ability to sing. I always check for tongue-ties and their severity with my students. The more severe the tongue tie the more you will use compensatory methods in order to make up for it by overusing the jawto articulate and not opening the jaw enough. These things can create an overly raised larynx position or tension in the throat that prevents you from singing with freedom, especially in the higher ranges. For example when singing the EE vowel in the high range, the jaw will need to open down very far and the middle of the tongue needs to raise very high. With a tongue tie this may not be possible because the jaw will pull the tongue down with it, which will cause you to not open your jaw enough and this will lead to strain." It definitely makes sense, especially for the EE vowel when you how to release vowel it to "Eh".

Also I feel like I got a lump in my throat almost every day even by just sitting and not doing anything - not talking, not singing - just breathing. It's really weird cause I feel I sometimes even stutter from it when talking 'cause I can't move it freely. When I open my mouth and try to touch my upper jaw with my tongue I get a bit past the middle point and that's it. I am nowhere near the top.
Here are photos: https://imgur.com/a/7WJ3IaG

HuduVudu

It definitely can negatively affect your ability to sing.

I don't agree with this statement at all. If anything I see it as a benefit to singing and not a detriment. If there is any detriment it would be mild. Here is a person with tongue tie providing their thoughts on it about their singing.

I always check for tongue-ties and their severity with my students.

The incidence of tongue tie runs around 5% why on earth would you check for this at all? A quick check of a person's lingual frenulum can verify tongue tie, but seriously why. As stated this is not any kind of impediment.

The more severe the tongue tie the more you will use compensatory methods in order to make up for it by overusing the jawto articulate and not opening the jaw enough.

Tongue tie has NOTHING to do with jaw movement. Repeat NOTHING to do with jaw movement. In singing if we could possibly get away with not moving the tongue at all we would. We do NOT want the tongue to move we want it to stay down even when we are articulating consonants. Doing this ensures that we have open throat through all of our singing. Watch this video and pay close attention to Ken's tongue position in the various phases he goes through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZATunybJm_4

These things can create an overly raised larynx position or tension in the throat that prevents you from singing with freedom, especially in the higher ranges.

This is the best example of word salad I have seen in a while. This statement is so beyond ridiculous that trying to dissect this would be a complete waste of time. Suffice it to say that whoever uttered this has absolutely no idea of what they are saying.

the jaw will need to open down very far and the middle of the tongue needs to raise very high.

Ummmmm no no and no. Raising the tongue will close the throat. Not what we want when we singing. VERY much not what we want.

Also I feel like I got a lump in my throat almost every day even by just sitting and not doing anything - not talking, not singing - just breathing.

Your throat is not your tongue so you need to have an ENT scope you to see what is happening. Tongue tie causes no pain, and if it did it would be sublingually not in your throat.

It's really weird cause I feel I sometimes even stutter from it when talking 'cause I can't move it freely.

Tongue tie actually helps stutters because it slows down their tongue mobility.

Lastly you do not have tongue tie. If you want to know what tongue tie looks like it looks like this:
thedentalarcade.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tongue-tie.jpg

Whoever put this ridiculous nonsense in your head you should run screaming from. They do not have your best interest in mind and they are dangerous in that they can easily confuse the uninitiated with word salad. My advice to you is to find a good vocal coach on line or locally and be very wary of what you see out there. There are many many charlatans.

meggustah

Thanks for the detailed answer @HuduVudu ! That's so nice of you!
And I've read about tongue ties, they can certainly affect some areas of your life ( more likely to have Forward head posture, Recessed chin or underbite) but I'm gonna visit a doctor just to be sure, you can never go wrong there, right? And you have to agree for the Ee vowel, the tongue DOES have to go in front, behind the teeth and if sometimes pulling it back (the tie) it can be hard to stay relaxed.
I'll definitely have a ENT check me out for the throat 'cause it's getting scary.
P.S. I just realized your avatar is the Fat of the Land by the Prodigy, sick taste man! Thanks again, you're awesome

HuduVudu

I'm gonna visit a doctor just to be sure, you can never go wrong there, right?

Absolutely agree with you there

And you have to agree for the Ee vowel, the tongue DOES have to go in front, behind the teeth and if sometimes pulling it back (the tie) it can be hard to stay relaxed.

Your tongue should always be flat on pure vowels. I ensure that this is happening for me by touching the tip of my tongue to the back of my lower teeth. Understand that all pure vowels sounds are made in the throat when singing. We practice the pure sounds first to make sure that we are forming them there and we aren't using any part of our face or tongue to form the vowel. When we FULLY understand this idea we can had different places for resonance and different coverings to add tone for the artistic sound we are trying to achieve, but even then the vowel sound will always be formed fundamentally in the throat by shaping it.

I'll definitely have a ENT check me out for the throat 'cause it's getting scary.

A very smart move. Throat issues can be a giant impediment to singing. Turns out I had an issue with my throat that was causing me a lot of irritation and I was positive singing/practicing wasn't doing it. I took a break to see if it would go away, it didn't. Then I went to an ENT to see what was going on, he said I had laryngitis. Since I have had this problem for many years this was shocking to me. Long story short I did more digging talked to more doctors and finally found out the root cause ... asthma. I have been dealing with this for 40 years. Moral of the story don't ignore what your body is telling you

I just realized your avatar is the Fat of the Land by the Prodigy, ...

Wow, can't believe you caught that. I love Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Crystal Method (and of course more )

doc_ramadani

Oh, that is interesting, never caught that. I thought it was @HuduVudu's love for seawater tanks that was the reason for his profile picture. Now that makes a lot of sense.