Where do I go from a muddy sound of SM58 as a female?
coffeecrank
2.0 PRO Posts: 763
Ok, I really need an advice on a good mic... I currently have Shure SM58, and it's terrible for my voice: I sound muffled, muddy and weak, and I have trouble being heard at band practice (cranking up the volume gives huge feedback, so there's only so much you can do there). I got myself sore several times because of that and came to the conclusion that SM58 is just not that great for me (or even not that great in general). I also hate how SM58 is not picking up sound the second you move an inch.
But where do I go from here? From what I read online and saw on YouTube, there are at least 2 good options I can look into: Seinheiser E835 and AKG D5. But I'd love to hear opinions from people who know mics.
I don't want to go too much over 100, at least not yet.
Here's the example of my voice (recorded with SM58 and a cheapo pre-amp + some post-reverb):
https://audiomack.com/song/coffeecrank/seven-nation-army-the-white-stripes-cover
But where do I go from here? From what I read online and saw on YouTube, there are at least 2 good options I can look into: Seinheiser E835 and AKG D5. But I'd love to hear opinions from people who know mics.
I don't want to go too much over 100, at least not yet.
Here's the example of my voice (recorded with SM58 and a cheapo pre-amp + some post-reverb):
https://audiomack.com/song/coffeecrank/seven-nation-army-the-white-stripes-cover
Comments
I've been lurking in the forum for over a year, but thought I might have something to add to your discussion.
I have been experimenting with a few different mics, running them through a Sound Craft board with and without EQ and tried recording voice with them in close proximity to a 7.5 foot acoustic grand piano. The object of the experiment was to be able to record voice (mostly) on one track, while keeping the piano out of it as much as possible.
The mics I've tried with satisfactory results were the Shure SM58, Shure SM57, Electrovoice 660 (a classic that Led Zepplin and other bands used live in the '60's) and a surprisingly cheap but nice MXL-3000. The first three are dynamic mics, and I much prefer the sound of the EV over either of the Shure Mics. Here's the thing: The EV specification said that it is supposed to have a super-cardoid pattern, but it has a couple of lobes that are offset by about 30 degrees, so you can 'get off to the side' a bit without disappearing. Even so, it seems to keep the piano out of the track as well as the Shure mics. It has a warmer sound than the Shure mics, but has been out of production for years. A good used one usually goes for $150 to $250. I would pick up another one when possible.
The MXL-3000 (cardoid pattern, large diaphragm condeser) has the best sound overall (I like it better than the NT-1, but honestly, the difference is very slight and could be due to the cleanliness of my phantom power source) but as Raphael said, they are fragile and subject to damage from shock, require phantom power, and they do not like humidity at all, so you must always use a pop filter to try to keep the moisture out of them, and don't even think of using one outside, or they may suddenly quit working. There are shops that will take an inexpensive condenser mic, such as the MXL3000, upgrade the capsule and tune up the frequency response to just about anything you want, for a fee of course.
Here is a website that I use when comparing mics and some other audio equipment:
recordinghacks.com/microphones
Anyway, I would suspect that if the SM58 sounds to muddy for you, and you can't or don't want to adjust using EQ, an SM57 may be more to your liking, because it has a bit of a peak in the midrange response, which should make your voice sound brighter. It is still rugged enough to take live gigging without much worry. If you can get your hands on an EV660, do it! It is a classic mic for vocals, is made from a tough, solid zinc casting, and it even looks good!
edit: I just saw that @Raphael_Hussl already pointed out EQing, sorry if this is redundant information
Here's a direct link to SM58 info:
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Shure/SM58
The usual mods are listed on the bottom of the page, but EQ adjustment is probably a better way to go to boost the mids and highs. That way, your 58 is still a 58. By doing the transformer mod you're really just converting the SM58 to an SM57. I agree with @Klaus_T and @Furious_Phil about the windscreen as well. It does remove some of the plosives and noise which will improve the overall sound.
I listened to you singing on the collaboration you did and on the sample you posted. You have a really nice voice and I think you would be stunned at how terrific you would sound with a large-diaphragm condenser mic in front of you. (Large diaphragm meaning 25mm or greater. The larger ones tend to reproduce more detail) With the female voice, that area between about 12,000 Hz and 20,000 Hz can contain a lot of detail that the dynamic mics that cut off at around 12 to 13 kHz wouldn't catch, and no amount of EQ will help if the mic isn't hearing it. Some of the music stores around here will demo mics in the store before you buy, but I have only purchased used ones online. It's a risk, but so far I've been able to repair anything that was wrong with them.
Just a hobbyist here that likes to experiment and figure out how to make stuff work and make a bit of music for the fun of it. There are probably others on this forum that have a lot better handle on a wider sampling of audio gear.
~~Dan … an old tech geek
FWIW,
The dynamic mic will suit you better for live performance, and perhaps even for studio recording.
See this article.
https://www.homestudiocorner.com/3-reasons-to-use-a-dynamic-mic-on-vocals/
Though I have a Rode NT3 condenser, I've been using an SM58 knock-off exclusively for recording my vocals for the past 9 months. You can hear it on any track / collab I've recorded in that time frame.
Neither mic is top-shelf, but they fit my budget. I switched to the 58 because the NT3 was too "sizzly" for me AND more importantly, it picked up more room noise than I wanted. For recording, I stand anywhere from 6-10 inches away from the 58 (Graham Cochrane at recording revolution has a good video on this in his vocal mic shootout, which includes an SM57), using generous amounts of eq in post recording. For the most part, I've been very happy with the results. BTW, the 57 and 58 are very similar. I have a real 57, but prefer the 58 knock off.
Keep in mind that proximity effect will kill you on any mic - singing closely to the mic really over-emphasizes the low end.
I don't think your recording sounds all that bad, and as others have said, EQ will go a long way.
Chris
I started out with an SM58, but found that it was getting lost in the live mix. So I found a Sennheiser E835 for $60 used. It was like someone pulled a heavy moving blanket off of the monitors! That would be my first suggestion for live vocals...
After that, I'd suggest that you maybe try to find a used TC Helicon VoiceLive vocal processor. This will enable YOU to control your vocal sound and effects! Very highly recommended piece of kit.
Once you've gotten all this, after a time, you might want to invest a little more in something like a Sennheiser E945 mic. I did, and I can tell you that those things are game-changers.
(Caveat) But I'd try one out before buying to make sure it works with your voice.
For studio recording, a Rode NT series mic is a decent starting point.
Once you have saved up a bit more, I'd recommend either a Lewitt LCT-440 or an Aston Origin, either of which will take you right up beside the big-name studio mics. I run an Aston Origin, and it is brilliant.
This is the processor I was mentioning: https://www.thomann.de/gb/tchelicon_voicelive_play.htm
It will also allow you to run stereo out to your mixer board
It helps keep musicians poor
Sounds like you are well on your way to having seriously good gear. Like you said, pace yourself and you'll have it all without financially strapping yourself
I listened to the other tracks as well and I really like the timbre of your voice.
I always loved that Jennifer Warnes tune, and you nailed that.
Keep up the great work
I've tried in-ear and i've tried rehearsing in band while my husband adjust the sound for me, (for x EQ) but a sm58 just doesnt work for me.
If you search google you can find profiles for most mics to get a visual idea of how they work.
Thank you for this thread, and good luck on the search for the right companion 🙂
The funny thing here was that my husband (Whos a soundguy) expected me to pick another mic, than I did. So, though he has listened to me singing in a few years, both here and there, he still hasnt figured out excactly what I prefer. (And I cannot tell WHAT I need to hear, I can only feel when its not right
Other things you can try which I have found really useful, With a digital mixer you can go analogue in on one channel and double it up using digital I just send the same input two two channels the net effect is that you can do a standard eq on one and then a really bright mix on the other channel then just blend the two together add a little compression to it and voila a really nice solution don’t forget some reverb to finish off By the way it doesn’t sound like doubling if done right
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