Do I still suck after 5,5 years of singing? ( 3 year on KTVA )

Csesztes

Hey Guys,

I recently received a few negative comments on my YT channel.
Firstly It did not bother me because these were not constructive criticisms, more like " You suck." category.
However for some reason I really took it to the hear this morning. I had a very bad quality video and the comment was like this. "Nice! Your voice suits the track perfectly." After this I got offended and removed all videos from my channel. Even changed my name and remove my picture.

Roughly 2 weeks ago a girl was telling me, she does not believe I do not have real friends who tell me how bad I sound and I am embarassing myself.

Please guys tell me do I indeed sound that bad?
Here is a recording from two days ago singing Iron-Maiden - Wasted Years ( The comments I received are for some other songs, it is just a general demonstration)


and Iron-Maiden - Aces High. ( This I think can be more similar for the videos which were disliked. I think my high sounds sound unpleasent for most people.)


Honestly I do not think it is that awful, but I can not trust my judgement any more.I know I tend to go flat,I have been trying to improve on that area from a month now, since my support got a better. ( At least I think.)

I really got demotivated, especially after all the hours I put in during the years some people still cant stand my voice or maybe my tone I do not know.
I even started wondering If I should quit, but thinkink all those work was in vain makes me mad.

I kindly ask you to be honest, if it is not good please tell me. It would do good me in the long run.

Thanks for reading.

Stay healthy.

BR:
Csesztes

Chris82

It wasn’t very good sounding to me. I honestly think it’s song choice my man. What incredibly difficult tunes to sing. I think if you found some songs better suited for your voice people would change their opinions.

That’s not to say that you shouldn’t persue the type of voice/style you want but you have to work up to it.

You should definitely continue singing because theres a lot of good thing going on in your recordings too!

Skylar

I know this may sound cliché, but I don't suggest just completely throwing in the towel and giving up.

I feel like we all have had days (I know I have) where we are maybe just burned out or feeling like we aren't making progress, but I think in those movements, we have to remind ourselves what our "why" is and why we even started this journey in the first place.

I do think something good that I immediately saw was that you obviously have discipline and tenacity, especially given how many hours you've put in so far. So I believe if you keep applying those aspects you will continue to grow and get better. I know those comments can sting, especially because your voice is something so personal to you, but rest assured that the people that are just being rude and not being constructive probably are upset with themselves in some way.

I don't know if you watch Ken's channel, but Kati Cher recently made a post on her page ( https://www.facebook.com/OfficialKatiCher) highlighting some of the mean things people have recently said about her and her voice and singing on Facebook and I think it may show you that even some of the best still have days where those comments can sting.

Oh and also, you don't suck at all. I do think like all of us, there are things that would be ideal to fine tune, but that's something we all experience.

I haven't been doing the course as long as you, but something that I think may have been happening are some pitch fall offs. I sometimes have this problem and for me a lot of times it's because I forget to continue engaging support even after the "high note" or I forget what note I'm supposed to sing and then mess up.

I think something else that may help you is possibly investing in a higher quality mic. Sometimes your voice would sound loud and then other times it would sound muffled. I don't know much about equipment but that may help. I know you mentioned how the tracks sometimes are bad. I find that a lot too, I try getting mine off of (https://www.karaoke-version.com/) as I find these tend to be better quality than a lot of ones that you find off Google or something.

I hope this helps some, if you take nothing else away from this, just don't give up man, remember the love you have for music and why you even started this journey in the first place!

Csesztes

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your encouragements.

Reflecting upon Chris, I was getting sh@t talk on some easier songs as well.

For you Skylar I checked out the post you shared regarding Kati. The think what upset me the most that mostly people criticing her appearence, not even her voice. Of course she is a well trained singer and has a beastly voice, so there is not much to criticise. Some people are just have a really bad personality.

Actually, I have better equipement but I was lazy about learning all the hassles which come with the software, so I opted out until now. Maybe I will give it a look, but I hate that aspect of music.

I did have some positive feedbacks after concerts as well, but we know that what might sounds great in a concert can be sucky on a recording.

I do know that I love singing especially the concert atmosphere, so I would be sad to leave that behind, so I probably won't.

Also, thanks for the karaoke page. That is really cool. \m/

sjonrokz4u

Just remember there’s always gonna be people who say you suck no matter what. And vice versa. Be your own barometer for good and bad and use the same scale to judge yourself that you use when judging other people

sjonrokz4u

I just wanted to add. On the internet there’s plenty of people wanting to say you suck. I haven’t had a chance to listen for myself sorry

Csesztes

Thank you. For now I am gonna push through and keep working.

Vocality

@Cseszetes

Like to add a little here, one thing did notice dropping support at the very end of phrases repeatedly in both tracks and its definately an area you might want to hold the support right till the end of the phrase rather than a fall off.

There's good points in your voice once you sort out song choices and reckon you'll see a significant improvement.

Vocality

Csesztes

@Vocality Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.

Wigs

The issues you have are more about getting consistency and remembering to apply what you learn in the course to your singing. You've got good range for these types of songs but your pitch is suffering because as already mentioned you are not holding your support. It sounds to me that you haven't internalised the placements for the notes and words you sing so you are always sounding like you are searching for the correct pitch. Tonally I think you have it correct, but the one thing that everyone can usually hear is if you go off pitch.

I dont think Ive ever managed to sing an entire song without a few bung notes, really make it a focus of your workouts and singing as you move forward from here. Theres a video of Ed Sherrin on some talk show where he plays an old recording of himself singing way out of pitch, this shows that it is something you can train to do correctly.

Csesztes

You are right Wigs, I was still reading the lyrics.

I 've been having trouble staying on pitch ever since I started singing. I checked earlier some pitch exercises, but all I found is like play a note on a piano, sing that note. I do not think it is effective. I know Ken also has basic pitch exercise, but I think I would need something little more advanced.(I do not mean to be cocky or anything, I used to play the guitar for 10 years, so I have basic pitch.) Altough, if some of you think it is still worth checking out, I will give it a try. Honestly, I thought it is gonna come with routine, but it deffinitely needs work.

So any good picth exercise is welcome.

Wigs

If you are able to hear pitch in real time as you are doing the scales and identify immediately if you are off pitch, then that is already a big step forward. Doing the scales daily helps your pitch and muscle memory for the placements of notes and the relative vowel mods in songs. Have you tried learning the song starting with only the ah vowel, getting that pitch perfect then moving onto all the other vowels? That is something you can try.

esequibo

first of all, even after three years, your recording is still amateur af, imo you should get a better mic and record covers in a proper way, using instrumentals, there are plenty of them in youtube. this is the only way to get to a decent level if not pro.
second, i never liked bruce dickison singing style, that said, it feels (at least in this shitty quality recording) as if you manage amplify these aspects i dislike the most about his style, so in a way you might be in the right path if you really want to sound like that.
3 years could be little time (depends) in terms of vocal improvement. if i were you i wouldn't give up, if i were you i would get a better equipment and listen to myself as i sing (headphones), this is the only way you will be able to understand how you produce cool tone and how to avoid awful tone.

Csesztes

Wigs said:

If you are able to hear pitch in real time as you are doing the scales and identify immediately if you are off pitch, then that is already a big step forward. Doing the scales daily helps your pitch and muscle memory for the placements of notes and the relative vowel mods in songs. Have you tried learning the song starting with only the ah vowel, getting that pitch perfect then moving onto all the other vowels? That is something you can try.

I did not. Sometimes I do it with lip rolls, but usually just going in altogether.
I think the issue is deeper, casue I tend to go flat even with songs which I already know very well. Most of the times I can hear when I screw up. 2 weeks ago I tried out practicing with noise canceling headphones. It helps.

Klaus_T

regarding the better pitch exercise from the course, I strongly recommend you give it a try. it not only teaches you to hear the intervals (which is why you think you don't need them because you got that down already), it also teaches you to sing them. if you think about it, with the arpeggios and major scales, some intervals are never sung in direct succession in our daily training (in the major scale, you either have a half step or whole step to the next note), so you train these a lot, but when are you ever doing a seventh, for example? but in a song, there might be these other intervals that aren't addressed in our daily practice. so i'd say do it for a few weeks, see what happens. someone recently edited and uploaded them into one chunk, without Ken's explanation in between. i am not sure if it was taken down, i downloaded it before it was, if you are lucky you still find it somewhere on this forum.

also, do the "AH" only practice for your songs as @Wigs says, you will notice how much better you will be with pitch then compared to the full lyrics. do vowels-only once you get the AH version down. only then add the consonants. yes it is boring, but you are doing hard songs, so you should exploit any opportunity to improve

birdcherry

Do you use in-ear monitors when you sing live? Because it's very hard to sing correctly and stay in pitch when you try to outvoice loud guitars and drums. You simply can't hear yourself accurately. So, if you don't have monitors, buy them.
Second, it would be great if you will try to improve your pronunciation. English isn't your native language, is it?
There's lots to work on, let's be honest, but at the same time, it's definitely not the worst Iron Maiden cover that I've heard. You have lots of potential, just keep going, keep improving. I sing Iron Maiden myself, it's not the easiest one to cover, for sure. It requires lots of breath support and good voice control, and lots of guts, actually. Those who said you're suck wouldn't be able to sing half at the level you did, I am sure.
Oh, and by the way, try searching "the first Iron Maiden gig with Bruce" on you tube. Even Bruce himself suck at times. We all just humans

Csesztes

Thanks for your feedback @birdcherry .

I don't, but I never had a problem on stage not hearing myself properly. Gonna check these out, thanks.
I am from Hungary.

Well looking back on the post after month maybe it was not the best idea to use Iron Maiden songs as a benchmark, since these are beyond my current skill.

However, I practice some Lost Horizon songs as well which are also not from the easiest bunch of songs. Honestly I also love them much more than Irod Maiden.
This recording I actually consider good. It is less than a minute just part of the song. I would appreciate if you could give it a look and share your opinion.

sjonrokz4u

It was pictchy but I like your tone it’s actually pretty good and high I wish I could do that

Csesztes

Pitchy means out of tune? Sorry I am not a native speaker as mentioned above.

Gutier

Friend, do you know what I think happens to you? I say this because I believe that something similar happened to me as to you right now.

It happens that YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO YOURSELF CORRECTLY, and that is why you cannot realize that you are singing extremely out of tune. In my personal case it happened to me that I did not realize that I was singing badly, I did not realize that I was singing out of tune, out of tune, horrible.

Somehow, over time, something happens, and you can notice it, and then as you progress through the hard vocalization practices and other exercises, you can listen to old recordings and you can realize that you were singing horrible. I tell you with some experience on the subject in my personal case. It is hard, but it happens that YOURSELF does not realize it. I didn't realize it, and even though I knew I wasn't an Ian Gillian, I thought I was at least doing it right ... but the reality was that I COULD NOT SING EVEN Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star !!! wealthy !!! So, I can only tell you to keep practicing, look for ways to develop THE EAR. Play random notes on the keyboard or guitar (WELL TUNED) and then try to IMITATE those same notes from memory ... and just like that ... try to sing very soft a cappella, record yourself and then listen to yourself ...

What I can tell you in your favor is that I notice that you have great support, I notice very good diaphragmatic work, seriously. But as long as you can't tune the notes, no matter how much you support, the best is going to sound bad, out of tune. My suggestion is that friend, find ways to correct your hearing. I see that you are not hearing yourself. As soon as you can make that "click" in your mind, you will be able to tune like a god because you have good diaphragmatic support. And you'll shut up everyone who told you you sucked.

Gutier

Csesztes said:

You are right Wigs, I was still reading the lyrics.

I 've been having trouble staying on pitch ever since I started singing. I checked earlier some pitch exercises, but all I found is like play a note on a piano, sing that note. I do not think it is effective. I know Ken also has basic pitch exercise, but I think I would need something little more advanced.(I do not mean to be cocky or anything, I used to play the guitar for 10 years, so I have basic pitch.) Altough, if some of you think it is still worth checking out, I will give it a try. Honestly, I thought it is gonna come with routine, but it deffinitely needs work.

So any good picth exercise is welcome.

Something happens, this exercise is one of the gods of the exercises to achieve tuning of the ear with practice and with time ... because the correct tuning is not only something technical of the larynx or throat, but it is in the brain! and the constant repetition is to burn it in the mind. When I understood this, my eyes widened like two fried eggs. I came to this with a thought ... how does a baby child learn to speak? repeating words ... imitating his parents ... everything he hears ... how do you think someone learns to sing properly ??? repeating by ear, by heart .... think about it.

Csesztes

Thanks for your insight @Gutier

OMG I did not tought the situation was this bad. I mean I know I have issues staying on pitch, but that I am extremely out of tune. I truly have a bad hearing.


So based on your feedback I would be better off ditching the VOL3 and VOL4 workouts for now and putting the same amount of time in basic pitch exercises, is that correct?

I tried Ken's pitch exercises only once last week, but if it is truly that bad, then I need to work on it ASAP.

Gutier

I cannot recommend too much, rather say some suggestions, I am also still learning and I am still in Volume I, I am about 10 months now. Challenge yourself, record yourself play a minimum series of notes on the guitar, just play them and hear them well. Then be quiet and try to sing it by imitating those notes. So many times. Then you stop recording and listen to yourself. If you understand it and you have sung badly, you have to realize it when listening to yourself on the recording. But ideally you should realize it the moment you sing.

Klaus_T

you can also try tonedear.com and do the interval exercise, check the instructions and start with the root, 3rd, fifth, ascending first. sing along with the notes you hear!!! and only add new intervals once you reach 90% with the 1, 3, 5. the app will add some new intervals if you are getting enough right in a row, then this is fine, but START with what i said above.

would be cool if you could report back your results after you did it a few times. i was shocked at how hard it was to even do these basic intervals (after all, they are the notes of the major chord and make up a big chunk of any vocal melody).

Csesztes

@Klaus_T

Thank Klaus I tried the exercises and "suprisingly" I suck, I could mostly detect ocatve and 2nds but that is it. Gonna build this into daily habbit.


EDIT:
I tried the easiest one.
Just major3rd, perfect 5th and octave.

My stats: 37/50 74%

Times Heard Times wrong Accuracy
Major 3rd 17 3 82,35%
Perfect 5th 16 6 62,50%
Octave 17 4 76,47%

Klaus_T

thanks! it's not so bad but also not great keep at it, document it for yourself and enjoy the improvement.

bentk

Getting good relative hearing is not easy and takes regular practice. You can learn to identify intervals, chord qualities, chord inversions, chord progressions and more. It's good to build some skill there as a musician, and you don't have to practice it for hours. But practice it regularly or daily. I should be doing it more myself. Remember to also put things into a musical context to really learn and internalise things.

Singing back the things you play on your instrument and singing along with melodies are all ways to connect your voice. Sing scales, sing melodies, sing intervals, sing the modes, whatever. You can do all that in a comfortable register.

I checked some of your audio, and i actually liked a lot that i heard. People here have already pointed out some things such as pitch, so i am not going further into that. But you have range and some good tones. Learning to control it all is not easy.

It took me years to get where i am now, and i still have to learn. It also took you years to get where you are now, and it was not in vein. Nothing good comes easy, and there are loads of people here to help you with the exercises and everything else singing.

As you become more 'musical', for lack of a better term, your pitch will improve. Good singing technique helps a lot though!

I hope some of this speaks to you and is of help to you. Keep the dream alive!

EDIT: by the way, keep doing your vocal workouts but focus on only quality. don't worry if you workout 40 minutes or 2 hours. Quality are things like technique (support, vowel mods, bright tone etc.) and pitch. This would be one of my suggestions at least. A certain amount of quantity is needed of course, but don't sacrifice quality.

All the best,

Ben

Csesztes

Thanks for your insight and encouragemtn @bentk

I do basic pitch every single day for a week now. I also do the ear training recommeded by Klaus. I will report in 2-3 months.

Vocality

@Csesztes its great to see you've made a start at the regular ear training practice and it wont be long till you hear significant improvements. What i noticed each interval has its own tonal quality as you practice your able to pick out them out much more accurately and interested to see how you progress in the next few months.

Vocality

Csesztes

Hello,

Thanks all for the support.
Today I managed to get 84% (from 50 notes )on ear training at here : https://tonedear.com/ear-training/intervals

Good thing is it automatically increased the difficulity by adding minor2nd. This site is awesome.

Klaus_T

great that you like it and do it now, in case you have not seen/used it yet, the "auto proceed" option saves you a lot of clicking