Steve Perry!!

JamieH

Hey all!! I am trying or wanting to cover Separate Ways by Journey, and Steve Perry is hard to follow. I can keep an open throat fine but when it come to these words in the verses 'two two two, you you you, pain pain pain, vain vain vain. I can't seem to chest the first word of each and the second vain, I go into this horrible weak whiney mix on them , with flat tongue, open throat and plenty support, chest WILL NOT WORK!! Gets me frustrated. Even the exercises aren't stretching my chest when I add any volume. I can hit all notes quiet but I need volume. Also, the note B4 in this song is my problem note, it's not possible to chest it and my mix won't happen nicely. The big notes in the chorus are difficult too, pretty much any B4 in this song. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LatorN4P9aA What is the technique behind Steve Perry and how can I work this? I can make a recording upon request if needed. Thanks you!

highmtn

B4 is a high note and you need to stretch your chest voice to be able to sing a full chest B4 and C5 and above to establish that you can get to those notes in chest. 

Then, after accomplishing that, instead of a "horrible weak whiney mix" use a good, strong, chesty mix.  You can't go directly to the strong mix of chest and head, without first stretching your chest voice up to the notes before you mix in any head voice with it.  It has to be strong first, or it will sound whiney and weak.  

You have to earn your notes, and they take time.  You will have to exercise a lot to build the stamina it will take to support those notes.

Hearing you demonstrate these sections will give us something that we may be able to diagnose how you are approaching these lyrics and notes.

Thanks.

Bob

JamieH

Thanks Highmtn

I used to be able to chest a B4 even if it didn't sound 100%. I guess its gonna take a lot of work.

I can make a demo later tonight.
Thanks

JamieH

There's one other thing. My voice is very tired now after three songs,
I used to be able to do 10 with my band and feel fine after. But now when I finish I'm very dry in my throat and my epiglottis feels dry, and during singing I get weak range with fry and my voice finds it hard to grab onto notes. Whenever I do held high notes with open throat I feel pressure/stress on my epiglottis. I saw an ENT last month and he said everything was fine. But my voice is quite weak compared to what it was.

highmtn

@JamieH,

You need to upload some samples of you doing the basic Lah.

If your voice is tired then you are singing too hard, and not supporting and regulating your breath properly.  It's that simple.  You are oversinging if your voice is tired and your range is weak.

You may think you are supporting correctly, but if you were, you would not be complaining about the things you are saying.

Dry = too much breathy air in your singing.

You may think that you are cutting back the air, but are not doing it correctly.

 

All the Best!

Bob

JamieH

Thanks for you advice.

 I support a lot of the time when I sing, and I do tend to push my voice a lot, but I have been cutting back on that using resonance to make volume. I do struggle with support, have been for a while now, I'm not understanding it when singing higher and there is so many ways to support. I am able to support my chest voice fine, but when I try to do a mixed chest the support is gone. I do favour holding back the air and holding the stomach out and releasing slowly, but this is not working for me in taking chest higher. I know im not using too much breath in my singing because I don't feel it and can't hear that I am. I will try to get you some samples of my Lah in the next few days.

Thanks again, I do appreciate your help and advice.

highmtn

We'll see what your demo shows. 

There is a reason for everything when you have problems with your voice.  Whatever that turns out to be in your case, we will see.  The good news is that once we identify why or how you are oversinging or undersupporting, we can address how to approach that in a healthier manner. 

Looking forward to helping you move past this issue.

All the Best!

Bob

JamieH

@highmtn

Here is my lah exercise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwarcJSM9l4&feature=youtu.be

 I don't feel like I was modifying at all. I hope this helps.I did a gig with my band last night, sang 14 songs, classic rock and some metal. My voice wasn't as dry and I was tired at around the 6th song, but my voice was still in good condition and cracked twice. I feel i might have been singing too loud which meant more pushing, but I can't help it when i'm singing live. This affects my high range and if I slide from chest into a high note, I get closed down feeling at the back of my mouth which kinda hurts, and I get weak rasps instead of a full note with a few cracks.

Thanks

highmtn

@JamieH,

This sounds pretty good.  At the proper volume, this sound should not hurt at all or make you go hoarse.

Your demo would have even been better if you would move back enough so we could see your abdominal area as well as your head. 

If you sing with too much air or air pressure, it will dry your cords out, and/or wear your cords out, causing them to swell, and causing you to lose notes in or near your passaggio.  

I don't know how good your monitor mix is or whether you are using in-ear monitors so you don't have to sing so hard to hear yourself well. 

I just got home from a 4-hour gig and had a great night, with a great monitor mix.  My singing was practically effortless to hear myself over the music. You should not have to struggle or "sing loud" in order to be heard or to hear yourself.  If you do have to sing loud to be able to hear yourself, you will eventually blow your cords out from too much wear and tear.  You can't possibly sing loud enough to overpower amplified instruments that are turned up too loud for your monitor system. 

You should be able to sing while holding back the breath and be heard head and shoulders above the sound of the band.  If that isn't happening, you may need to have a chat with the band about stage volume levels and the capabilities of your sound system and monitor system. 

If everybody is in a mindset of telling you to sing louder, that's not ever going to work in the long run. Yes, you may sing louder on some passages and quieter on others, but you should not have to use force or pressure on your vocal cords in order to be heard over the roar of the band. 

You are right about there being so many ways to support, because every note, at any specific volume, and with any specific tone is going to require a specific amount of air pressure and a specific amount of support in order to produce the right sound at the right volume.  You just have to be conscious of support and keep trying to create it as you rehearse and as you perform.  I know I've spent a lot of time on stage reminding myself that I need to support, and sometimes searching for it and not finding it.  

As I continued striving to learn it and then teach myself how to recall the feelings for later, I eventually got good enough at it to do it consistently.  

Nights like tonight, after 4 hours of going for higher notes than I've ever gone for in front of an audience, my voice was just as crisp and clean at the end of the night, even more so, than when I started the evening. 

I am so glad that Ken stresses support and doesn't hide it from his students.  Other coaches mostly act like support is no big deal, because they don't understand it and don't want to have to deal with students wanting to know how to do it. 

Support will make or break a voice.  Keep trying to get it ingrained into your body and brain.  It will be well worth the effort. 

If you are having tension issues near the passaggio, you should add the vowel modifications, because they will help you to get more resonance and more ease in that area of your voice. 

So I give you a good grade on your LAH.

Your next move would be to start practicing Separate ways on the AH vowel only, no consonants.

Let's see what happens to your AH vowel on the melody of Separate Ways, in the key of the original recording.  You may find that you need those mods on something more complicated than an arpeggio exercise.  Let's see what your support is like on the different parts of that melody. 

We can go from there.

Good job on the Lah.

Bob

JamieH

@highmtn

Thank for watching that and for the feed back, I really appreciate it. I can do the exercises well and am making progress with them. But when it comes to songs I seem to lose what I am learning. The vowel mods don't make sense to me in song. But I will definitely try to do songs using the Lah.

Wow, singing for four hours is my goal, it must be great that you can do that.

I can hold back my air but then I start to feel as though I can't carry any weight to make my chest voice bigger and I feel choked, so I tend to add more air. I really do believe in compressing the air and it helps me sometimes, but when I am belting with holding back the air I can't take it any further with a mod? Is this something I will achieve once I move onto volume two or three? I worry about all these things because I have a two 45 minute set in september with my band and I know I get tired vocally after about 4 songs, and I am singing big songs! One of the songs I am doing is Don't Stop Believing, and I can hold my own in it, but the top Bb4 is really choking me off and I am worried about doing this live. What mod can I use on that?

Thanks for all your help  

highmtn

@JamieH, 

The mod you need to sing depends on the word, the vowel, the note, and your voice.  What word in what part of the song are you asking about?

You need to cross a threshold of taking the things you learn in KTVA into your songs by singing the LAH vowel first, then  adding the other vowels, with no consonants.  

It seems really dorky at first, until you realize what's happening.  All of a sudden you feel what it feels like to sing on vowels that aren't all chopped up with too much consonants.  You realize that you should barely pronounce consonants, because they interrupt your open throat that you then have to re-establish over and over again throughout a song... OR you just go back to your old ways and struggle just like you always have.

It's like a veil is lifted off your head and suddenly you see what it is you are supposed to be doing when you sing.  OH!.. So THAT'S how singing works.  Hmmm.  Let me try that on this song now....  Hmmm.  That's cool.  WHY have I never known this before?  

It's actually pretty exciting when you find yourself falling back on KTVA methods instead of on your old straining and struggling methods which caused you to seek out vocal lessons in the first place.  Now, once you find that way of singing, you can implement it into song after song.  Everything about the Moving Targets, the belly breathing, the chest expansion.... ALL OF IT suddenly becomes like DUH!!! WHY have I been singing wrong all my life?  

Most of us have sung our "own way" that we just made up ourselves for so long that we are just one big walking, talking, squawking MOVING TARGET and don't even realize what real singing actually is.  We don't know any better.  It's almost staggering to think of all the things Ken is teaching us, item-by-item, detail-by-detail, and that we have the capacity to learn that much information and change old, poor habits into great singing! 

There actually ARE right ways and wrong ways to sing, and Ken has spent a fortune and a lifetime learning what is real and teaching others how to get there.  

You're almost there.

You will get there.

Don't Stop Believing. 

Start taking the next steps to crossing over to singing on the vowels and kicking out the excessive consonants, opening the vocal tract and keeping it open. 

All the Best!

Bob