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Ken tamplin - burn

coljacolja Member Posts: 45
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm2tfr5sCH4

8:52

"with a wave of her haaaand"... Is that C5 mixed voice or something like that?
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  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Pro Posts: 105
    edited September 2016
    no, that is chest voice with hyper-glottal compression
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    vmalheiros said:

    no, that is chest voice with hyper-glottal compression

    How can he (bass/baritone) bring up chest voice to C5, if even tenors can't... Well, rarely they can...
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  • JonasFinnLarssonJonasFinnLarsson Pro Posts: 200
    colja said:

    vmalheiros said:

    no, that is chest voice with hyper-glottal compression

    How can he (bass/baritone) bring up chest voice to C5, if even tenors can't... Well, rarely they can...
    He's stretched his chest voice over a long period of time.
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  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Pro Posts: 105
    colja said:

    vmalheiros said:

    no, that is chest voice with hyper-glottal compression

    How can he (bass/baritone) bring up chest voice to C5, if even tenors can't... Well, rarely they can...
    Tenors most definitely can bring chest voice up to C5, D5 and more if they are trained singers. Ken Tamplin is a highly trained singer. He has a high baritone/low tenor voice, which is the case for most men. When he started out, as he tells us, the highest note he was able to sing was an F#. But he has stretched his chest voice over time, which enabled him to sing that note the way he did.
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  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,380
    He has studied the methods of Ken Tamplin Vocal Academy.
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    vmalheiros said:

    colja said:

    vmalheiros said:

    no, that is chest voice with hyper-glottal compression

    How can he (bass/baritone) bring up chest voice to C5, if even tenors can't... Well, rarely they can...
    Tenors most definitely can bring chest voice up to C5, D5 and more if they are trained singers. Ken Tamplin is a highly trained singer. He has a high baritone/low tenor voice, which is the case for most men. When he started out, as he tells us, the highest note he was able to sing was an F#. But he has stretched his chest voice over time, which enabled him to sing that note the way he did.
    Really? Because many voice teachers told me that tenors can go up to A4/A#4, but if trained for years, maybe reach c5...
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  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,380
    Those voice teachers really meant that THEY were unable to go any higher. They must not have studied KTVA. That would explain why they were limited in their abilities. I used to think that I would never be able to sing a chesty C5. It's no big deal to me, now. It didn't come quickly, and I tried and failed a lot... until I had worked at it properly and steadily enough that it's well-within the range of notes I can dependably sing.

    Like I said, getting there wasn't overnight, and it wasn't easy. I was stuck at G4 for a long time... Before that, I was stuck at F4. If you give it time and work it right, you will eventually pass through and find the other side of the looking-glass.
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    highmtn said:

    Those voice teachers really meant that THEY were unable to go any higher. They must not have studied KTVA. That would explain why they were limited in their abilities. I used to think that I would never be able to sing a chesty C5. It's no big deal to me, now. It didn't come quickly, and I tried and failed a lot... until I had worked at it properly and steadily enough that it's well-within the range of notes I can dependably sing.

    Like I said, getting there wasn't overnight, and it wasn't easy. I was stuck at G4 for a long time... Before that, I was stuck at F4. If you give it time and work it right, you will eventually pass through and find the other side of the looking-glass.

    That's really cool! If you can sing a C5 with a very chesty mix/chest voice and you're a baritone, do voice types even matter anymore? If that's true, that with work and dedication, over years, baritones are able to sing tenor notes, then voice types really don't matter :P
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  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Pro Posts: 105
    edited September 2016
    They do matter, man, but not in the sense that you think they do. Vocal fach is much more about timbre than it is about range, if we're talking about trained singers. Before I had any vocal training, I use to think that I was a baritone. My highest note was a G4. If you go to a classical technique book, you'll find that my voice fits much better in the low tenor classification, than it does in the baritone classification. True baritones have very deep and low voices. In my opinion, most men are high baritones/low tenors. However, when we talk about tenors in regards to popular music, we are referring to those REALLY HIGH voices. For example, Robert Plant was able to sing C5's all the time in his prime 1968/1973 with really bad technique. Imagine if he had proper training. He was a really high tenor, like Michael Jackson, Bruno Mars, and so forth. So, those guys probably can go beyond C5, since they're not just tenors, they're High tenors.
    Now, if you want to understand what voice classification really means, listen to this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjt9o_fQdQE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21WgZyq5wYg 2:42
    Do you see the difference? both can hit the notes, but they do so with very different timbres. Both in call register chest voice.
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  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,380
    Vocal fachs are more about how much low tone can your cords sustain. A baritone can sustain low tones that a tenor simply doesn't have the tone to produce. Both may be able to sustain relatively high notes. In a case like that, the Baritone has "more" range. The baritone has a harder time shedding enough of his tone to go up high. The tenor, because of a thinner tone, has greater ease at the higher end, as a whole. That's not to say that a baritone with stretched chest voice can't sing a higher chest note than a lot of tenors. And the baritone may sound beefier on that same high note than the tenor.

    There is no shame in having your tonal centers higher or lower than the person standing next to you. We all simply have to learn where our limitations are, and begin taking down the barriers that have prevented us from singing the songs we want to sing in the past.

    It's really a feeling of freedom when you quit asking "what key shall we do this song in" and instead just say "It's in E" or "It's in A" because that's the key the song was in when the lead vocalist was in their prime of life. You just step right up to the mic and the notes are there, and it feels and sounds good.
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    vmalheiros said:

    They do matter, man, but not in the sense that you think they do. Vocal fach is much more about timbre than it is about range, if we're talking about trained singers. Before I had any vocal training, I use to think that I was a baritone. My highest note was a G4. If you go to a classical technique book, you'll find that my voice fits much better in the low tenor classification, than it does in the baritone classification. True baritones have very deep and low voices. In my opinion, most men are high baritones/low tenors. However, when we talk about tenors in regards to popular music, we are referring to those REALLY HIGH voices. For example, Robert Plant was able to sing C5's all the time in his prime 1968/1973 with really bad technique. Imagine if he had proper training. He was a really high tenor, like Michael Jackson, Bruno Mars, and so forth. So, those guys probably can go beyond C5, since they're not just tenors, they're High tenors.
    Now, if you want to understand what voice classification really means, listen to this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjt9o_fQdQE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21WgZyq5wYg 2:42
    Do you see the difference? both can hit the notes, but they do so with very different timbres. Both in call register chest voice.

    I have listened to that live performance many times before! I asked multiple people, and that's not chest :P It's mix voice! A very chesty one! And the original is pure head voice...
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    Sorry, I just read that and it sounds rude. I meant to say, that many teacher SAID that it's mixed, not that it is without a doubt! That's what they have said! Same for the head voice in the original!

    What could I be, if my most comortable notes are A3-D4? I can go down to an A2, but not very strong and kind of strainy, and highest in chestis A4/A#4... No training, but I will get a teacher very soon.
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  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,380
    There is a lot of misunderstanding about vocal fachs, and just about any vocal instructor (and student) has their own take on it, when, in truth, we're all just trying to get a handle on how all of this works. There is so much misinformation in circulation about how to get through the difficult areas of the voice, that it can be difficult to explain or to understand, at times.

    So terms like "I'm a Baritone" or "I'm an Alto" can, at times, be helpful for us to understand a few things about the voice, but if you study the right information about the voice, you can also learn that Baritones and Altos can also sing in the "range of" Tenors and Sopranos. Basses aren't forced to stay in the Bass Range, either.

    Altos can sing notes that Sopranos can't. Basses can sing notes that Baritones and Tenors can't. All of us can sing beyond the limitations that many vocal instructors say are "out-of-bounds" for us.

    So a question like "What vocal fach am I?" can be a limiting one. But it can also reveal a bit about the part of the voice that is easiest for you. Just don't let anybody tell you that you "Can't" sing something or that you will "never be able" to sing something that's presently too high or too low for you.

    And always remember, that no matter how high or how low you can sing, you need to make it sound GOOD first or nobody will care how high or low it is. So we should be concerned mostly with the quality of our voice, and then work on more quantity of notes.

    Bob
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  • vmalheirosvmalheiros Pro Posts: 105
    hey @colja listen to this if ya can
    this guy was said to be a baritone
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdAvg8SO1A
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  • coljacolja Member Posts: 45
    vmalheiros said:

    hey @colja listen to this if ya can
    this guy was said to be a baritone
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdAvg8SO1A

    Video is blocked in my country... Freddie was said to be a baritone? What? That's impossible :O But his show must go on chorus... How?
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  • streeterstreeter Pro Posts: 679
    blondiewales said:

    Just chiming it, it's very common for KTVA trained singers to go to C5 and far beyond. I think Ken once said that he prides himself on getting all his students to at least belt at C5.

    It's incredibly common for other vocal teachers to have opinions that strike me as primitive, such as "baritones shouldn't sing over G4." It's simply not true, but it may have been what they were taught. Just consider yourself lucky to have access to this sort of information, which is "freeing" in many senses of the word.

    Can confirm.

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