Hi from a desperate creature

birdcherrybirdcherry Pro Posts: 32
edited December 2016 in INTRODUCE YOURSELF
Oh, well. I'm really very upset right now with my own vocal skills. And Ken's programm is my last chance, because if that won't help, than no one does. I had two personal vocal couches, but all problems remained. Recently I screwd a few songs in the studio that sound very bad to me and mostly because of my not-so skilled singing.
I had a very long and crooky path in music. I started to sing being 2 years old. At 6 parents brought me to music school, but there were not vacant places at vocal class at the time and I was enrolled to study violine. And 8 years I was leraning to play violine not really loving it from the start. As for the singing, I learned to sing myself and did it wronly I guess. I also sang in the children's choir and even had been a soloist there for a while, but no one actually taught us proper technigue there. At the age of 13 I began to write my own songs and performed them in front of my classmates. But unfortunately at that time when I was growing up, there were no Internet, no talent shows and nothing what modern kids have. Plus I was singing in English and always wanted to sing rock, and even a heavy rock, and in my country of origin it was almost impossible at the time. So, no chance of becoming child prodigy :)
At the age of 23 I recieved some prize in screenwriting and went to USA for a while, where I recorded my demo song at some small home studio. When I returned home I started to search for the band and for possibilities to do my music, using that demo. But it wasn't easy.
In the topic about critisism on this forum in "Psychology of singing" section I read how band members abuse singers and about harsh critisims that takes place toward singers, so I'm not alone here (and I already very thankfull to this community, because it made me understood my problem was common) So, situation was the same in whatever band I tried to step in - I heard that I sing badly, that my voice is too high (too quiet, too child-like etc) for singing rock.
I was on and off with singing (quitting after another fail and starting all over again because I can not not to sing) untill I realize that it's now or never. I have this gift of songwriting and I want to be able to sing my own songs myself, because they're telling MY story.
I don't know if problems that I have is common or not. Technically I have a 3 octave range (from D3 to D6, sometimes even up to E6) but I can use properly less than octave from F4 to E5. This is where I sound bright, strong and even feel comfortable enough to apply some destortion or sort. From F5 to D6 I only may sing in lighter mode or in some classical manner (usually I use it for backing vocals) My real HUGE problem appears at B3-E4, I almost whisper there, no one of couches were able to slove that problem for me. And this is where my voice cracks, it goes somewhere backwards, loses volume and brightenss and everything. And if I try to push it it sounds so damn ugly. From A3 down to D3 it somehow sounds again a bit stronger, but still not as strong as on higher notes and the tone is also isn't realy great. Can anyone explain to me what's going on there? I really wish to improve my voice at this lower parts of my range and to make it bright and beautiful there, and I wish to get rid of all those mistakes I make even when I sing in my comfortable zone.

And also I noticed that I sing much better at home practicling or on stage when I let lose somehow (although it's not really often when I sing in public) but when I come to the studio, the fear of doing it all wrong (I guess this is a trauma from so much critic I recieved on my singing) is blocking my vocal chords and I sing the worst of what's possible...

Oh yeah, I fogort to tell that this year I passed through first part of auditioning for Voice of Finland, but second part of auditioning was my end. It of course wasn't good for self-esteem either.

I also hope to solve some articulation problems, since English is not my native language,since proper vocal techigue relate to this as well...

Sorry for such a large post, but I needed to speak


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    highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,358
    Hello, @birdcherry.

    Welcome to the KTVA forums. You've been down a lot of wrong roads with bad turns. Let's hope you've found your way to the beginning of unlocking your voice, once and for all.

    You'll really need to do what Ken says, and leave all previous concepts or misconceptions at the door. If you start froms scratch, you've got a chance to do it right this time.

    We'll have to see what's going on with your voice, once you start working Ken's exercises.

    Take your time. There is no hurry. You need to get this right.

    We'll take a listen to your voice in the student areas and get you pointed in the right direction.

    All the Best!

    Looking forward to your progress!

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    birdcherrybirdcherry Pro Posts: 32
    Hi, @highmtn
    I can't figure out how to embed soundclouds link, so my singing (at the stage that it is now) may speak for me :)
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    birdcherrybirdcherry Pro Posts: 32
    Here's some examples of more or less "good" singing, since bad doesn't appear on public spaces

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    highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,358
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    shamiishamii Pro Posts: 11
    @birdcherry those two tracks are great examples of artistic expression and you should be proud of them. I like them; they are inspiring and your voice sounds fine (in both in a general sense and in a "textural" sense).

    While you're developing the "objective" aspects of singing like note range, "pure" tones, vowel sounds and other techniques (and yes, even healthy distortion, like Ken shows us), keep in mind that making art and being a well trained singer are two distinct and very different things. There are too many great artist to list in this reply who couldn't sing a note to save there lives and make AMAZING music (to me - and to many others). And while I wouldn't go as far as to say that gaining better technique would hurt their efforts, it certainly didn't stop millions of people buying their music and enjoying it.

    "Good music" is purely subjective. Good technique is not. But I think the point is to enjoy the journey because in the end there really isn't a specific destination. There are many. Once we get to one, we should enjoy it and depart to the next knowing that there is an entire universe to discover.

    Keep learning to sing so that you have more (and better) tools to express yourself; learn "proper" technique so you can do "anything" you want, when you want; and so you can continue to do so late into your "twilight" years whilst maintaining a strong and healthy voice. And again, remember: good singing doesn't make good music, but good music does sometimes include good singing.

    Some quotes from "interesting" vocalists that might be inspiring when frustration is taunting us:

    "I have never dared to face the disappointments that my true vocal range may bring. I have many fundamentals in my voice that give the appearance of it being very deep or very high, when in fact I believe it's quite narrow and limited." ....and... "Music is a Place to take Refuge. It's a Sanctuary from Mediocrity and Boredom. It's Innocent and it's a Place you can loose yourself in Thoughts, Memories and Intricacies." —Lisa Gerrard (Dead Can Dance)

    "Writing songs is like capturing birds without killing them. Sometimes you end up with nothing but a mouthful of feathers." —Tom Waits

    "I was never attracted to being a very proficient singer or player. I suppose I was interested in creating a vision; in the same way I was very drawn to tension within cinema." —Siouxsie Sioux

    "You have to take risks." —Perry Farrell ( Jane's Addiction)

    "We probably, as primitive people, made music before we actually had a language, and that's where language comes from." —Debbie Harry

    "Art is the perpetual motion of illusion. The highest purpose of art is to inspire. What else can you do? What else can you do for any one but inspire them?" —Bob Dylan

    "I prefer to think of myself as a musician who is still learning and trying to do something every time out." —Geddy Lee (Rush)

    "My responsibility as an artist is to turn up at the page or the piano or the microphone. The rest is up to God." —Nick Cave (Birthday Party; Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds; Nick Cave)

    "After making music for twenty-six years I can't pretend I don't know anything about it anymore." —Blixa Bargeld (Einstürzende Neubauten)

    "I'll never be Bob Dylan. He's the master." —Neil Young

    "Words cannot express quite a lot of feelings, whereas a noise or tone or drone or sound, an accordion falling down a staircase, can somehow capture an emotion much better." —John Lydon (Sex Pistols; Public Image Ltd; Afrika Bambaata; Leftfield)

    "Basically, I'm a musical vocalist, but I do voiceover stuff as a sideline, like plumbing or something." —Iggy Pop

    keep making art please!

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    birdcherrybirdcherry Pro Posts: 32
    edited February 2021
    It's been a while since I visited there and it was soo nice to see this reply of you. Time went by since I last posted there and things improved quite a lot for me. I developed good chest voice and improved my vocal techniques. I learned false cord screaming and I found my DREAM BAND with which I am going to record EP later this year. (Well covid pandemic made things a bit complicated, but it will pass I am sure!)
    I still have some problems (I can't develop proper connection between my chest and my head. I still think my tone is a little bit "meeh", but it's a matter of taste anyway, some people like my tone very much, so who knows)
    So, after all I wish to say HUGE THANK to @Ken Tamplin because his method really works.IT REALLY DOES
    As a little proof from me, here's a video from our garage gigs (unfortunately the sound quality is a "garage kind of sound recorded on the cell phone" - but during pandemic garage filled with few friends was the only possibility for live gigs). Anyway, in this vid I sing mostly in chest voice which at the beginning was my most struggle (in my first post I mention how breathy and weak it was)
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    birdcherrybirdcherry Pro Posts: 32
    And I also would like to add a note to those who may be struggles right now just like me few years ago - NEVER GIVE UP! KEEP GOING! KEEP IMPROVING! Hard work surely pays off
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