Song writers?

[Deleted User]

How many striving vocalists here at KTVA write their own songs? I'm just curious to know who the songwriters here are to share information on how to create melodies, harmonies, and just general singing techniques for original material.

Peace, Tony

Furious_Phil

Right here! In the last year I have written about a dozen pieces in various states from about 1/2 done to ready to record

[Deleted User]

@Furious_Phil, They should have a separate category for singer/songwriters here.
Also, did you recently become a mod, or have I not noticed that since I joined?

Furious_Phil

Agreed, and yes it was a recent appointment.

[Deleted User]

Sweet. Congratualtions

jamespleasestop

I'm not awesome at it but I've written a lot of parodies and recorded a few under a pseudonym. I'd like to write something more conventional - just no idea where to start. With parodies once I have the seed of an idea I'm fine, but it normally springs from hearing the song and then connecting it mentally to a topic.

Where do you start writing original songs?

Furious_Phil

I started doing these guitarist/songwriter's symposiums that are hosted by some pretty well-known professional A-Lister musicians... Been learning plenty from that.
Also did a Speed Songwriting course a few years back to give my writing some structure and methodology.
These 2 things really helped me to be able to write more prolifically and in a more complete manner.
I wrote a few pieces before doing any of the above, but they were few and far between

[Deleted User]

When I lived in Nashville for a while they had weekly songwriting symposiums with well known artists as well. Those get-togethers are priceless, and you can learn years worth of technique, and theory from each one. I always loved the symposiums, and the stories that went along with the writing was just as valuable, and interesting.

rickyogima

I've been writing songs for a while and still trying to figure it out. I have come to realize that I need to develop my voice to reach a variety of tones for the creative process. I can write songs endlessly but to come up with a song that has appeal to it whether through lyrics, vocal tone or audio production takes work. For what I have discovered, most songs are created within minutes followed by a lengthy production. I am striving to feel and hear a song, then be able to sing out whatever comes to my human experience in hopes of finding a good song: and maybe, a great song. That's why I'm taking singing lessons.

tonyoftucson

This is a something I just sent a lead guitar player
He sent me video of his skill
But no video of soul

This may or may not help you
Then again it might

My response:

I'm not much of a guitar player
I'm a vocalist

( I play guitar well enough that I
Write basic skeleton songs
And lyric
With harmonic chord proggressions)

And well enough to accompany me through a song
and throw in some cool runs in between my vocal parts to keep it interesting

I leave the technical thoery to musicians to figure out the rest
Which always changes my melody
And intensity
Resulting in a finished song

With that I agree with slash
I've played with many guitar geniuses that are only interested in showing off their ability

Its impressive but boring
Playing alot off impressive scales
Without considering where the song is coming from
where it is and where it's going
Leaves the listener either bored or confused

I've heard Steve vai say hell spend hours on one string

Eddie say hell spend hours on 4 notes trying to come up with as many combinations and different sounds that he can with just those four notes

I know you need to know scales
Just remember that one sustained note played in the right place can do wonders for a song

So I agree with slash
Practice practice practice scales
When it's time to play a song
Forget about scale technique and
Just play a song

But what do I know
I'm just a singer

Although the same holds true for me
I do vocal exercise after exercise
When it's time to sing
I dont chose from one exercise
I Pick and choose from all of them
Depending on where I'm trying to lead the listeners to

A fast ride on a straight path is exciting but quickly becomes predictable and boring

A bumpy up and down ride
With twists and turns
Starts and stops
Slow climbs fast drops

Is unpredictable
And emotionally satisfying

But again
What do I know
I'm not a musician

As a singer I ask musicians only one thing
Play in a way that takes me on that ride
Happy sad angry laughing crying
Put all that into one song
I'll give that song a voice

And the audience wont know what hit them

doc_ramadani

@tonyoftucson

I love your philosophical considerations.

Doc

Devin4397

I've been jotting down lyric lines by the 1's, 2's, and 3's, rarely the 5's to 7's since idk how long (I mean I'll write down at most 1 or 2 or 3 lines, rarely 5 or 6 or 7, during those rare periods when I'm usually at work and I get a bit of inspiration) But I never ever finished a song and it's just me writing these lyrics usually on a guest check. Unfortunately I don't write (or practice as much as I should) when I'm home but I guess I should, it's always when I'm at work and I have absolutely nothing else to do and I wanna work on it. I have a few guest checks left with incomplete songs that are only 1-5 lines long.

miahangel2084

literally just sit down one day with a journal if you dont have one get one!!!!! just write down your feelings, whats on your mind, dont be afraid to use specific details, either write into a poem or just free write, if you free write just go back over time and look through your pages, makes it easier to add authentic emotions to music when its your own, a lot of ppl say melody should come before lyrics and the melody is the eaisy part, for me its the opposite, and if you ever like magic have words in your head RUN AND RECORD ON YOUR PHONE!!!! those words and that melody will disappear just as fast as they came and you will never remember them again. the more you practice the better and easier it gets

Stelly

I have been writing songs since 1999. I have recorded 5 songs myself with little recording know how. i sing and play guitar in them all. This happened in 2007. I consider them Hard Rock songs. I decided it was something i had to do. I wanted to prove to myself that i could do it. Now i have more time than i did these past 10 years and I'm ready to take my singing to a new level. I play my guitar daily and now want to develop my voice properly without wrecking it. That's why I'm here. First post. Good luck to all!!

Furious_Phil

Yeah, sometimes I hear melodies (which I capture on my voice memos) other times I get rushes of words or hear turns of phrases... those go in my iPhone notes.
Same when I am noodling on my guitar... sometimes really weird stuff comes out (that goes on my iPhone voice memos)
At some given time, I begin to patch-weave things together and sometimes something magical happens. Other times, I have a decent foundation that I build on later.
I recently watched a Taylor Swift biopic call Americana, and watching her songwriting process was very inspirational.

Tomanication

Hi an alle, der Bassist unserer Band hat ein cooles Riff entwickelt. Nachdem ich Kens Songwriting-Video gesehen habe, sind mir spontan 3 Texte eingefallen. Das fand der Bassist ebenfalls cool..Nun suchen wir eine berührende Rockmelodie dazu, nach Soundgarden-Art. Gibt es grundsätzliche Prinzipien oder Einstieg dazu? Nach dem Motto: Vers ist so, Refrain, Bridge sollte dann so sein. Oder: Bass-Riff ist so, Melidie sollte dann so sein?

Danke für Euer Wissen und eure Ideen

Chris82

I keep wanting to learn but I don't play any instruments to write too. I've tried making vocal melodies/lyrics on their own but that doesn't seem to be the best method for me. then I found this website:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MusicInTheMaking/

Its a forum where songwriters are looking for collabs and they usually want vocalists. You can listen to a bunch of different tracks people have made, find one you like and try to add vocals.

I've found this a much easier way for me to come up with a melody, just listen to a bunch of tracks, find one you connect with and have at it.

d1g2w3

@Furious_Phil - Which course did you take? I find I can get chord structure of a lot of my songs and every now and I get I can pull them together but a lot of times I fail on transition. Would be good to get that speed course you took

Furious_Phil

http://speedsongwriting.com

It really helped me get past writer’s block (for the most part)

Rainbow

I don't really try to write songs that much - they kind of write themselves - at least the melody and lyrics do - they usually arrive in my consciousness together - either for a verse or chorus or both - or just a snippet of something - and sometimes the whole song arrives all at once! I don't think about it too much. One time I couldn't sleep and had a song idea going around in my head. Was 1am when I went downstairs to the piano, worked out the melody, lyrics and chords for 3 verses, chorus and bridge and then went back to bed and slept straight away! Honestly, sometimes it's like the song already exists and just wants me to get a pen and paper. If I'm out and about I sing it into the voice memos on my phone. Got loads of snippets on there - can be useful if I've got a song that needs an or bridge or whatever. It's usually some time later I actually make it to the piano and work out the chords, and gradually a piano part will evolve. The lyrics occasionally evolve a little too but mostly just a change of word or phrase here or there. I'm at a point now where I strongly feel I need to learn music production so I can expand from just piano and vocals and start adding other instruments. Have recently started an online course in using Ableton Live. I'm a total beginner but I'm looking forward to being able to add in other parts - then hopefully there will be more scope to make my songs sound more different from each other, and to try different styles etc. Got loads of basic material to work with - need to develop some technical skill now and start developing my songwriting in new ways. It's exciting! So much more to do in the way of development as a songwriter, pianist and singer! A never-ending journey - but definitely a fun one!

Furious_Phil

@Rainbow , I really like the sounds of where you are headed.
Its very reminiscent of my process :-)
I also bought a DAW and decent recording equipment, and am about a year into producing my own music bottom to top. Its a pretty steep learning curve, but it gets better as your chops evolve :-)
Keep going!

Furious_Phil

This is a very brilliant interview from one of my absolute favourite songwriters, check it out.
https://youtu.be/P5C7d8DM9Pc

bentk

Good to see something from Sting here! He has made some super interesting and beautiful music. Interesting chords, chord changes, key changes, time signatures etc. A lot of thought goes into his music, and the execution is so good.

Later on in the interview, he mentions that he still studies music. That is very important in my opinion. You will only improve over time and become a more refined musician. You are never too old to learn something new.

TiWi

Sting is great! His songs somehow go directly to your heart. You can hear the quality of the sound.
Nowadays there are too many people thinking that programs can do all the job and make them famous. That's sad. I wanna believe that young musicians will turn more to the quality side than to the quantity.

Furious_Phil

I’ve been deep-listening to his music that last few months. His elocution, depth of vocabulary and comprehensive grasp of multiple World music styles/movements have truly upped my game. I actually perceive music differently now, as if I have somehow surreptitiously gleaned a little alchemy from the master.
Lastly, songwriting is no longer a painful process, it flows now and is light years beyond what I have written, say, three years ago.
Working on album #2, and loving life.

Peace to all you beautiful people

Klaus_T

@Furious_Phil can you share some of your music with us? where can i find album #1?

peace

DogMeat

I started to get back to writing and producing music 2 months ago (used to do electronic music +15 years ago). Did some cources on Udemy on Ableton (DAW i prefer), song writing, music theory and some others i cannot recall. Really loving everything starts to unfold. Has definitely taken some of my time off the sole singing, but overall i spent even more time on music. I have started to see singing as just a part of the whole picture i want to learn.

I will recommend this course, but buy when they have sale, because you can get all courses for 10-15$. At the monent at least i see everything on normal price
https://www.udemy.com/course/the-basics-of-pro-songwriting/

DeltonHedges

@tonyoftucson
Thanks Tony and everyone. Now I'm beginning to feel at home. I'll be back to this thread.

Furious_Phil

@Klaus_T ... I will be posting a few up most likely on Vocal Demonstrations for the Bold in the days to come.

Klaus_T

@Furious_Phil that's cool! thanks

Furious_Phil

@Klaus_T ... it's posted (gulp)

Rainbow

Thanks Furious_Phil! I love the interview with Sting you posted. Definitely agree it's a challenge to sing songs that were written from a deeply emotional place - will make sure to think about sex or football next time! 🤣 Seriously though, I never considered thinking about something else on purpose whilst singing. Something to experiment with. Also enjoyed your "Voodoo Queen" song 👍😎🎤💛🌈