New singer here, looking for some feedback!

Caseywhaat

Hi, my name is Casey, I’ve loved singing my whole life, albeit not very properly, at least in terms of doing it right. I’ve been essentially time deaf and have been practicing scales now for a week with Vanido, a digital tuner essentially, it’s helped a great deal. I’ve had lots of trouble staying on pitch and still do for that matter, I’m looking for some tips to help me get this down a little better, I doubt my breathing is on par, and I don’t think I’m projecting enough but my body will feel close to belting and I don’t want to push it further and end up tensed up.. I took a couple short clips of the scales I’ve down through the fire mentioned app. The first was I believe D#3 x2 then scale of D3 I will also post a video of the app being used, I’m kinda shaky on low notes, and start to get that way up too as well, and I feel like it’s not being projected enough but I have no clue honestly and I also don’t know how to correct it! Like they say “if you’re your own teacher then you have a fool for a teacher” thanks so much for any tips and help in advance! I’ll be forever grateful. I’m seriously looking to join kvta as soon as I have the funds available, but you can’t put a price on doing something you love and I’d like some feedback in the mean time! Please, and thanks!

Links : https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/107884149274662292811/6512776737022978418

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/107884149274662292811/6512775087732856274

Remember I’m just starting out doing this correctly and I’m likely still nervous / anxious. Maybe it’s just me but I’m no pro or very close to that at this time, but I’ve recorded myself before, and on some parts of songs I do fantastic so I know there’s potential! Just need to get there and unlock it! Though I was likely just getting lucky doing those parts well, but I don’t have any of those recordings theses days..

[Deleted User]

Everybody has their own preferences, but personally I don't care to use apps while I'm doing my scales. It's too distracting for me. I need to concentrate on what I hear, and feel what is going on in my body. If I have to concentrate on trying to keep up with an app then my concentration on the important things go wayside.
I usually practice my scales with my eyes closed. (under the assumption that when you can't see your other senses compensate)

My suggestion until you can get the course is to just watch as many of Ken's instruction videos that are out there on youtube, and try to use the techniques in your singing.
You will learn some by watching them, but if you really want to sing, the full course is the way to go.
There are options for the course that may be affordable to you.

The weekend warrior course is great for getting started.
You can buy a monthly subscription to the course.

Peace, Tony

Caseywhaat

Hey tony, thanks a bunch for the recommendation! I agree that it takes away from the concentration! But would you have any suggestions on how to train my ear for pitch another way? Or just shoot in the dark just practicing what I think are scales? It’s very hard for me to really tell where I’m singing at, that’s been my biggest weakness, I can’t hardly tell where I’m at or what’s up or down ya know? Lol I started playing piano recently and it’s helped me a bunch for learning notes and starting that war training process.

And thanks for the info about the program! I definitely want to take it as far as I can without spending that much, I just don’t have that kind of money lol but anything helps for sure!
And I’ve been watching all his videos! They have helped tremendously!! You should’ve seen me singing those scales before his videos hahaha, he’s what helped me learn to even sustain a note! I could hold a not to save my life before 36 hrs ago besides just getting lucky and probably over straining!

Also I’ve been seriously practicing the “open throat technique” which has improved my sound and note sustaining! Though I obviously still have a long road ahead!

Thanks again for your reply brother!
- Casey.

[Deleted User]

I totally get the money issue, but I wanted to sing so bad that I would have sold my soul (figuratively speaking lol) Seriously though, it depends on how bad you want something. The full course is designed to turn serious individuals into professional singers in a relatively short time. (what I'm aiming for) And if you were to pay a vocal coach an hour a day 6 days a week...........well, thats a lot of cash because vocal coaches aren't cheap. So this course offers the best of the best (You've heard Ken sing) for less than the price of a weeks worth of private instructors lessons. That's a steal to me.

For practicing scales of any kind, it;s fine to have audio to work with (unless you're a note/sight reader) but to do both at the same time I find too distracting. It may not be a problem for others. We're all different.
There are apps that you sing into that tells you what notes your singing. You can use those while doing scales to check afterwards if you are hitting them or not. Where you aren't hitting correct pitch, that's what you work on. Feel whats going on mainly in your throat, and head when you are on pitch vs when you aren't. You will hear, AND feel the difference if you pay attention.

Set up some basic scales to run through everyday, and challenge yourself everyday to go one note higher. It may take a few days, even weeks to jump up in notes, but thats the work part involved in all of this.

Peace, Tony

Caseywhaat

Okay that makes sense! Yeah the audio was playing in my ear, and I tend to challenge myself to not look at the notes and match the resonance, I do okayyy at best but I do know what you mean about matching the notes, when you do they will “harmonize”.. sometimes for me if I’m not hitting the note it’s very difficult to know if I need to go higher or lower, I’m not “tone deaf” but have some difficulty recognizing pitch, and therefore matching the pitch with my voice is near impossible lol but I’ve only been practicing this way for almost a week now, I’ve put in probably 13-14 hours of pure practice( had two days off) after the first two days, and now I’ve been 3 days straight.

Thank you for your suggestions, would there be any specific scales you would suggest? And are scales for the voice the same as on piano, like the whole whole half ... etc from base note. And I totally agree! Every time I notice I have more an issue in one spot I try to practice it more! I feel I do better on scales from C-D3 to about A3 like I feel I tend to hold the notes and transfer better to the next, I tend to get weaker low down, like around A2 and can’t sustain and seem to not be able to really project. And the same not high up from A3 maybe around G3 -A4 ish

And yes it definitely is! The harder the journey the more rewarding at the end!

[Deleted User]

Yes the voice is the same as piano keys. If you match the same pitch as a piano key it will be correct.

You can do a typical 8 note run with your vowels in the same fashion as do-re-me-fa-so-la-ti-da, but create your scales this way: (just an example) do-re-me-fa-so-la-ti-da, and then go down to complete the scale: da-ti-la-so-fa-me-re-do.
If you want the full scale that will be a total of 12 notes including the sharps, and flats. The scale is actually 11 notes, but on the last note in the scale you repeat the first note in the scale an octave higher.

Peace, Tony

Caseywhaat

Okay cool that’s great news! Do you have any suggestions for an app or something to use as a tuner or just go by hear til I hear harmonizing? I suppose that would really build muscle memory correct?
And the do re me fa so la ti da is just proper right? For example I can just practice single vowels for the scale say ah for practicing the open throat technique? Or should I stick to the do re me..

And as for the “12” note scales I’m not aware of that at all, I’ve just started learning music theory for a few weeks and practicing scales on piano and I’ve only known about 8 so far.. maybe that’s beyond my current knowledge?

And thanks again for all the insight! It is extremely helpful, and I’m incredibly grateful for every response! Any help at all truly means a lot to me!

[Deleted User]

The do-re-me was an example. You can do individual vowels.

As far as an app goes, the techie guys around here might be able to help, but I do know that there are apps that will record what you sing showing the notes so you don't have to monitor it while actually doing the scales.

There are 7 notes, and 4 sharps/flats. The F, and the C are the only notes without a flat behind it.

Peace, Tony

Caseywhaat

Ohhhhh I see what you’re saying, sorry I didn’t get it sooner, every scale ie from c to c is 11 notes which include the 4 “black” keys on the piano between c to c, gotcha!
But okay, I’ll try the individual vowels as a start up and just get used to my voice and pronouncing them.

Btw on the subject of breathing it is possible to use too much diaphragm or too little right? I was told to find that balance it’s best to produce a note and add diaphragm til it’s sustained is this right? And if so is it possible that it’s only a very light amount given? Or is this a sign that I am singing to quietly?
When I really let loose my voice is very loud and powerful, being in an apartment I try to stay a bit subtle, is this a problem? Do I need to practice louder to really be able to use my diaphragm?

[Deleted User]

Breath control is very important. The most important. "It's the engine that drives everything"
After doing scales for a while you will learn what works, and what doesn't, and make adjustments as you go along. I't's just a matter of digging in, and doing it.

When you do your scales, try to keep the volume evenly across all the notes. Don't get louder as you climb, try to keep it even.

Peace, Tony

Caseywhaat

Thanks for the tip! That sounds pretty on par to what I’ve been doing so I may or may not have too much of an issue with that, maybe I’m too psychologically worrying about it, which in turn is making me a bit nervous. So keeping consistency is what’s important here? Makes sense as it will build that memory.
Also I try my best to pay attention to my volume through the scale, if I’m doing it without that app I can hold the exact volume and or pitch through the vowels like ken suggested on the video, the only problem I find is that for now I have no clue what note I’m singing or if I’m actually on it! Lol but I found a half decent tuner that seems to work okay, hoping to build some muscle memory of the notes and build that feeling from moving up and down. It definitely takes a while to build and learn, wish it was easier but that’s what makes it so important!

highmtn

Casey,

You don't want to "harmonize" with the notes in the scale. You want to sing unison with the notes, matching them. If you get a harmony, then you are a third or a fifth or some other interval away from the correct note.

Bob

Caseywhaat

Maybe I incorrectly used the word here, thank you for correcting it, my mistake.

To be sure, what I meant by harmonizing was that day I hear a C well I play that note continuously then I match it with my voice until I hear the sound waves match perfectly and vibrate at the exact rate of each other. I am correct to do this right? Just want to make sure that it was just my incorrect use of the word and not me incorrectly singing again! Haha, thanks again guys!

Also I have another question, when I’m singing along with a song, I know I’ll be hitting the notes and in my head I hear everything matching up, but if I wear headphones and record myself with no music in the back, just my voice, it sounds like terrible, like I may be hitting a couple notes but my voice just doesn’t sound right, my ears can hear the vibration correctly but maybe I’m still of pitch? Or maybe I’m only on pitch during sustained notes and not the rest so it sounds trashy? Any ideas what could be causing this?

highmtn

"matching the pitch" would be a better way to describe it. If you ever hear someone singing along to an mp3 player and they have headphones on, they usually sound bad. Because they can't hear their pitch falling flat, due to the music volume in their earphones, and the lack of hearing their own voice except through bone conduction in the skull. In other words, it sounds a lot better to them, than it does to all of the people hearing only the person's voice without the music. You hear all of the imperfections that the person singing does not hear.

Caseywhaat

Ahhhh!!! Thanks for the insight! Thanks exactly what I was imagining but I wondered if maybe it was just me! So for example this would likely happen to experienced “good” singers as well?

What would be a good suggestion to singing on pitch and getting it to sound good as in singing a long with a song? Like just play it on a speaker and record all of it and listen back to see if it sounds unison? Obviously if the point is for us to find our voice we wouldn’t necessarily sound the same but the notes should still match right?

Sorry for all the questions I’m pretty new to the technical side, I always did it before as enjoyment for myself(as I’m finding out now it likely wasn’t enjoyable for others! Lol) and I love to learn new things, especially when it comes to the intellectual side of things, I like to really understand what’s happening ya know?

And I just wanna day thanks again for the replies and making me feel at home and welcomed! Definitely my favorite forum for anything at this point! You guys are awesome! I read a lot of stuff on here everyday just hoping to find more tips and find more knowledge on the subject so thank you guys for having so much information and contributing to the forum!

highmtn

Learning to sing is a process that involves getting all of the right information and studying and practicing to get techniques perfected. Then you can rely on those techniques. Just sitting at a piano and hitting random notes and matching those notes is a good way to learn to operate the pitch-seeking portion of singing. You have to train a lot of reflexes and learn to listen with more focus.

Make a plan and stick to it. Learn real information. I would advise you, at a minimum, to think about doing a KTVA beginners course and learn the basics of building the foundation for your voice. Once you realize that it's not just tips and secrets, but an actual set of many factors that have to be learned and combined, you would at least have that knowledge and foundation under your belt.

All the Best!

Caseywhaat

Thanks for the advice man, and I totally agree with you! I can’t wait to start the program, and hopefully can start it very soon! I know that will help more than anything.
And just sitting at the piano hitting notes is a good “work out” maybe and practice of noticing notes but it’s not going to truly help you sing, I understand there’s a lot more to it than just hitting notes, given that’s a part of it but there’s a lot more to it! I’ve been using the piano as a way to recognize notes so hopefully it will help a little bit lol but we will see!
I hope to join you guys as a beginner very soon! And learn the real basics, I’m sure there’s a lot I’m not going to get any information on until I get some kind of professional lessons so it’s probably better sooner than later! Thanks again for the advice! If there’s any lessons you think would be good for me without giving away info you have to pay for I’m all ears in the meantime!! Thanks again guys!

highmtn

You'll find all kinds of factual, real, helpful advice in over 400 videos that Ken has posted on YouTube. That's a LOT of free information. You really need to put it all together, though and do it in the right order for it to gel as a whole. That's why Ken's full course is ENORMOUS! It's very comprehensive, and not just to impress someone with its size. It's all part of the huge puzzle that is how to sing well. It has many pieces that all have to fit together as a whole.

All of the information comes together between Ken's course and the student areas of the forums. The rest is up to the individual to take all of that information and implement it.

Caseywhaat

Cool thanks a bunch! For now I constantly watch and rewatch his videos and make sure I don’t miss anything.
I look forward to getting the course here very soon, it definitely seems like a great deal, I love how he teaches, he’s very into it and concerned with teaching the right way, he is a blessing to say the least with all of his content, loving the forum and all his videos! Seems like an awesome guy and I can’t wait to be a part of everything!
Just from watching his videos and taking into account of how he says to practice has honestly made a tremendous difference rather quickly!
Like he says, the proof is in the singing!!