about improving

Whitesnake

Hello, guys! I want to ask those who already improved in singing, how you improved? I mean, it's like you tried to do the same thing again and again, and it didn't work, but you continued and finally you got there? Or you always tried to do it different until you got it? Maybe I didn't formulate my question clear enough, because english is not my native language. Sorry for that. The point is: are you did it by repeating the same thing even it's not work for some period of time, or you tried to do it always changing your strategy?

[Deleted User]

You have to have the right information, and yes, a lot of practice using that information correctly.
When I first started here, I couldn't get half way up the scales without screeching, and straining. Now I do them top to bottom with very little trouble at all.

You have to know what, and how to practice to get good at anything in life. Getting the information is the first step. Then practice, practice, and practice. (that never stops no matter how good you get) You should always practice your craft or it will slowly diminish.

Peace, Tony

Whitesnake

All information I get from Ken Tamplin. I try to do not listen other vocal coaches. Because this is a very complicated subject, and I don't want it like "this guy says do this, and that guy says do it the other way around". I'll never get to anything with such approach.

Furious_Phil

Think of it this way...

Pretend that your voice is like a boat on the ocean... You can paddle you guts out and get nowhere fast...
OR
you can orient a map to your trusted compass and set your optimized course towards the best-case destination. You know you'll get there as you have all the directions you need, and it is just a matter of how hard you work at the oars.

*** Or you can just row in any direction and hope you'll eventually make landfall.

See the familiarity here?

Whitesnake

@Furious_Phil Oh, I've got your point! The thing is, that I don't know if I'm doing it right, you know? No matter how hard you try, you won't make progress in one or two days. Sometimes it's far over a week or two. So you start to think: am I doing all of this correctly? Do I just need more time to get somewhere or I just doing it wrong? In fact, tomorrow I'll upload a demo with me singing the scales, because I think I actually went somewhere with this.

Furious_Phil

I hear you :-)

Just send in a basic Lah-ah scale, as we can tell allot from that. As Ken says, "if the Lah sound isn't right, nothing will be right!"

Look forward to hearing where you are with it and helping you get to the next level
(Also, as I am sure I mentioned, the actual course is the map and compass)

Whitesnake

@Furious_Phil thank you! Well, I had uploaded my demo somewhere about a week ago, and my call register was too loud. Well, today I noticed, that I can do it without pushing hard on my larynx and cram a bunch of air to it. It really about don't thinking of the high note, it's about thinking of where should I place the note, like Ken said.

P.S: you watch me how tomorrow I will be like: "erm...how am I did that yesterday?..."

HuduVudu

@Whitesnake In the U.S. we have this idea called "perfect practice". There is a lot of confusion about what this means, but it's true meaning answers your question. Understanding this idea also helps in every endeavor that you are new to and trying to practice. So here is how it works. When you practice you inherently are making mistakes, hence the word practice, but you don't want to make mistakes, you want it to be perfect. So what you do is, you practice and you TRY to do it perfectly. We are lucky because Ken has laid out what is "perfect", so we have the standard of perfection to form our practice. If we do it right eventually our practice will become perfect and then we can move on to other problem areas, and only revisit our perfected practice as a course of maintenance to cement the "perfect" into our muscle memory (or subconscious depending on how you look at it).

To directly answer your question, yes, you do it over and over again trying to achieve all of the things that Ken has laid out as "perfect". Even if you are just mimicking what Ken is doing, as you do it the way he is telling you, you will begin to have aha moments were you will understand why Ken is asking you to do it a certain way. As an example when I started to do the lip burbles I just copied Ken. I just tried to focus on doing it the way that Ken did it. Eventually I was able to do them without interrupting the burble mid scale. Once I felt I was doing it "perfect" or exactly like Ken. I moved on. Later though as I watched the episodes again, I caught that Ken also wanted the lip burble to not push any air, so as to not blow out a candle. So I modified what was "perfect", and put the back of my hand near my mouth as I practiced to check for air flow, to ensure I was doing it perfectly. Of course I was no longer doing it "perfectly", so I did the exercises as usual with the new "perfect" and paid very close attention to when my air flow was at it's lowest and when it was at it's highest. I found that on the higher notes my air went down, so I tried to emulate that on the lower notes. After several days I had my aha moment and I figured out what it means to lift my soft palate. I think this helps illustrate what I am talking about, hopefully it will help you.

Whitesnake

@HuduVudu thanks for the detailed response! I understand. I always try to mimicking Ken, but sometimes it's just frustrate me, like "what should I do to get it right?". When I try to fix one area, I find out that I have many problems in other areas. And more I try to fix one thing, the more problems revealing in the other things. And, to cool down frustration, your mind starts to playing tricks with you, saying: "Hey! You doing it not bad. And it sounds almost like Ken!". Or sometimes it's the opposite direction, like: "I can't do it. No matter what I do it still the same". And more you progressing, the more you realise, how far you are from your goals.

But I understand what you are saying and I'm gonna try it again and again untill I get there.

HuduVudu

@Whitesnake Ken says something really funny (to me) he says there is only one Bruno Mars. It reminds me of the Chinese saying that a man doesn't just fall on the top of the mountain. Singing like anything in life is difficult to achieve high levels of proficiency in. If it was easy, everyone would do it and no one would care that you did it. I struggle with the exercises too. I also keep finding things that I am doing wrong, and I get a bit frustrated with that, but I always keep the image of me singing an awesome karoake song, and doing it well. This is my small hope, but I can feel that hope and I yearn to reach it. It makes my current state more bearable and motivates me to keep moving forward. I find that if I have an image that I want to reach, I hesitate to use the word goal because of misunderstanding the word brings, I take a longer view of my practice. When I do this I see my mistakes and imperfections as pot holes not canyons.

Good luck with your singing. I hope it brings you great satisfaction.

Whitesnake

@HuduVudu thank you for your kind words! I appreciate that!

You know, I've been thinking...what you are just said reminds me of the movie called "Whiplash", when Fletcher said that Charlie Parker became Charlie Parker, because he didn't gave up. He was laughed off-stage, and spend that night crying. But what he did on the next day? He practices. And after a year he came out and give the world one of the best solo in history. But if on that night he'd thought "hey! I did it well, good job!" - that's it. No Bird.

And like Ken says: "The singer is only a singer, because he got the guts to be one".

So it wouldn't be easy. You just need to go on and don't matter how hard the road to your dreams is.