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Pentatonix - Hallelujah (Dogmeat, doc_ramadani and coffeecrank collaboration)

DogMeatDogMeat Posts: 2572.0 PRO
Hello friends,

We are happy to present you this collaboration track that was both challenging and fun. Because Pentatonix is a Capella band, this one needs a bit of explanation. We sang the lead voices, and put our mark on the background. Rhythms and choirs are mostly from the backing tracks, because deciphering them, recording and producing would have been too complex of a task at this stage. It was my first time producing other voices that my own, so that makes it extra special project. Huge thanks to Marco for proposing this, singing the 2nd part twice and helping being extra pair of ears, and Lana for those gorgeous female vocals that make the track whole. It was a pleasure working with you both.

Google Drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JENUDCJPq9isQ2ax338MpKZ7oh3kr25H/view?usp=sharing


Youtube



Pinging @doc_ramadani @coffeecrank @Diego @cwcw @Wigs @blondiewales @samw2019 @d1g2w3 @Rick_amateur @Gaston_Jauregui @Vocality @Sophia @maximgottmer @Klaus_T @Ken Tamplin and everyone i forgot to tag (Marco will add)

Comments

  • maximgottmermaximgottmer Posts: 2262.0 PRO
    Oh wow what a surprise! and what a proffesional sounding @coffeecrank ! Great work. I'm a big fan of pentatonix great a-capella arrangements they make. Thanks mates!
  • coffeecrankcoffeecrank Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    Great collaboration and great mixing results!
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 3,241Administrator, 2.0 PRO, Facility Management
    edited October 20
    Dear Ari,

    you put a lot of work into this project. I want to thank you. It was a great pleasure to do this one with Lana and you. Great work on the mixing. I think we should do another one, shouldn't we? Lana deserves some challenges. :smiley:

    Doc
  • coffeecrankcoffeecrank Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    @doc_ramadani Just not this high in range. :D
  • SophiaSophia Posts: 466Moderator, 2.0 PRO
    Wow, that was gorgeous! That style suits you all so well. Awesome job! Lana, your pitch control is great!
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 3,241Administrator, 2.0 PRO, Facility Management
    Hey Ari, I just realized that you did the ending so well - WOW, that was awesome. And thank you so much for putting so much energy into the mix. You put all of our voices together so well at the end of the song. What does it cost to hire you?

    Marco
  • cwcwcwcw Posts: 4032.0 PRO
    Wow! What a very nice surprise all of you. Well done! Thank you for sharing. I will be sharing this with my daughters as they are PTX fans. :)

    Chris
  • VocalityVocality Posts: 9022.0 PRO
    Fantastic that was really good @DogMeat @doc_ramadani @coffeecrank, great sound and like the way it was put together with good harmonies. Alot of work to get it at this level Kudos to all involved.

    George :)
  • blondiewalesblondiewales Posts: 481Pro
    Hey guys, it sounds good! I learned this song from the movie Shrek when I was a kid and I've liked it since.

    Doc does a good job articulating the words while keeping true to the melody.

    I'm guessing the first singer is DogMeat? I'm liking the balance of air and tone.

    Lana, is it just me or have you been working hard on keeping consistency of good placement? You can really tell on ascending phrases like the ones leading up to the chorus. You did a great job on the last verse. The best part was the higher part of "it's not somebody who's seen the light." You kept a really good consistency of tone there even up to the high note. The next line is good as well, but high note gets a little bit more pharyngeal and loses a small amount of resonance, I think. Keep it in the same spot that maximizes resonance. It was still good, though.

    ---

    Also, I won't mention who, but I noticed one of the singers sounds quite machine-tuned. I asked Diego and he agreed. I won't judge, because almost all modern music releases are tuned, but from a production standpoint, you want to get the original recording close enough that it DOESN'T sound tuned.

    Alternatively, it could just be that person's way of singing. I occasionally run into that problem sometimes, but the bottom line is that those swift, robotic changes in pitch are a bit undesirable, regardless of where they come from.

    Either way, great job to everyone!
  • coffeecrankcoffeecrank Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    edited October 21
    @blondiewales Yeah, I've really been trying to watch my placement, and I think I'm making some progress! I just always ask myself whether I sound "the same" on all notes. Thank you for great advice again!

    Thanks everyone for your kind comments! @DogMeat definitely deserves a lot of credit for his mix work, this is a tough one to mix.
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 3,241Administrator, 2.0 PRO, Facility Management
    edited October 21
    Good morning, Hampton, @blondiewales

    I think that pitch correction has to be done very subtle and it seems to be a real art. A friend of mine, he is now professor for music sciences, used to live in New York for a while. He told me that he was working on the Lead Vocals of a very famous pop star (let's say it was one of the Disney club generation) for ONE WEEK. It was a while ago in an era in witch the tuning software wasn't as good as it seems to be today. But even today you will need high quality software to do it in a way that it is not noticeable. But if you know how to use it it seems to be very powerful. I saw a video demonstrating a software called ReVoice Pro which aligns a choir of 4 singers within seconds and the result sounds really natural.

    Doc
  • DogMeatDogMeat Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    edited October 21
    @blondiewales you are somewhat spot on. I used Melodyne (the tuning software) to fix couple of mishit notes for each of us. I would say i had like 5, where Doc and Lana 3 each. Left a lot of room for natural singing, so there is a lot of error included in the package. Melodyne is cool software because it shows you an analyze of each note and how much they are off the dead center. Everyone did pretty good on pitch. Most of the (right) notes where between -15 - +15 cent from center. but then missed some notes or sang them in wrong key. Those are good to fix because it makes the track so much better. I just got the software as part of Nectar3, so i didn't have previous experience with it. What bothers me in the mixdown is that all the karaoke background stuff is tuned into perfect pitch out of shop, so it kind of makes it sound plastic now and then. I've also noticed that sometimes Nectar3's dynamic eq anp processing chain can make a unnatural flavors to sound but tried to avoid that.

    For anyone wondering the vocal processing was like this:
    - even out the volume of vocals
    - fix timing issues (where possible)
    - fix notes that sounded badly off scale (Melodyne)
    - Apply fx (Nectar 3 without pitch correction): eq, gate, de-esser, eq2, compressor
    - Apply reverb on all vocals (ReaVerb)
    - Mastering Ozone 8

    Harmonies at the end are cut&paste work from the previous parts. I used to do electronic music, so that came kind of naturally :smiley:

    @doc_ramadani LOL at hiring
  • DiegoDiego Posts: 1,015Moderator, 2.0 PRO
    Very good job guys!

    @DogMeat good job mate, you don't really seem to have a problem in that range. Nice mixing as well man, good job!

    @doc_ramadani You are getting better doc! Like @blondiewales said, you are articulating the words in a way that the consonants don't get TOO much in your way. Nice balance.

    @coffeecrank Lana... the improvement you have made is amazing already. You sound really good, not even kidding. Placement sounds a LOT more consistent than House of The Rising sun. You do however, lose a little of support and resonance on some high notes and I honestly think it was just a matter of not enough space and your placement shifted a bit, a little more openess and it would've rang haha.

    Good job you three!
    I don't even care it had pitch correction, sounded good haha.
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 3,241Administrator, 2.0 PRO, Facility Management
    @Diego: the most challenging thing in this one was to manage my air because I had to tame my chest voice and to shed the weight. At some spots you might probably hear that I am nearly out of air.

    @blondiewales: thanks for your nice comment - I still have a veeeeery long way to go but it is good to hear that my articulation is getting better.

    @DogMeat: WHAT? You had to correct my pitch??? - I didn't notice that. I thought I did so great! :joy:
  • blondiewalesblondiewales Posts: 481Pro
    @DogMeat Melodyne is an outstanding production tool. However, as someone once told me, it's meant to work for us, not the other way around. Make sure what you're getting is the actual note, and splice it up and move the note separation so that it fits.

    However, the real problem in this particular recording is that some of the notes were simply too far off for it to sound natural after tuning. This happens. It just has to be re-recorded.

    Ideally you want to get it dead on-key, of course. I won't delve too much into tuning software here because it makes some people upset.

    What can sometimes help is recording a piano or guitar playing the vocal melody you want to sing. It's easier for us to sing along to things like that.

    However... What really gives away an overly-tuned vocal for me is tone. If someone's placement is always shifting around or if their voice is placed in unresonant chambers, I know from personal experience that it's very hard to be on-key. When it suddenly is, it's kind of unusual sounding to me.

    ---

    But like Diego said, I don't even care. I really didn't mean to "call out" anyone. It was just a production note. Most that know me know that I love both audio production and singing.

    @doc_ramadani that's a cool story. Some songs and vocals definitely take a long time.

    @coffeecrank Nah, Lana. It was all you. Like I said, you naturally have a good sense of placement in certain parts of your range, and all you needed was for someone to point it out. A fun thing you can do now is to listen to other singers and figure out where their placement is and try to replicate it, so that you have more in your arsenal. However, as a soul singer once told me, you never want to be without your center tone. You use slight tensions and shifts to add.
  • coffeecrankcoffeecrank Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    @blondiewales I'll try experimenting with other placements today. :) I'm doing some recording with my band and will try to apply something different there...
  • doc_ramadanidoc_ramadani Posts: 3,241Administrator, 2.0 PRO, Facility Management
    @Wigs might, as always :smile: , missed his tag for this one. :joy:
  • DogMeatDogMeat Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    @doc_ramadani just few off-notes. Your overall pitch was great
  • WigsWigs Posts: 958Moderator, 2.0 PRO
  • samw2019samw2019 Posts: 2852.0 PRO
    Nice one guys good job, thats really well done. How did you go about the harmonies may I ask?
  • coffeecrankcoffeecrank Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    @samw2019 I think we pretty much skipped them, those are backing tracks from wherever Doc got the song. :D
  • DogMeatDogMeat Posts: 2572.0 PRO
    Yes there where separate male & female backing tracks, and we only did the lead parts
  • samw2019samw2019 Posts: 2852.0 PRO
    No probs the leads blended into the harmonies anyway which is a good sign
  • AlejandroSaksidaAlejandroSaksida Posts: 62.0 PRO
    My God I listened to this so many times already. I LOVE every bit of it! I loved the beginning, the whole energy of it, the variation and great sound coffeecrank's voice introduces, the editing, the timing, the harmonies, the whole magic of it!

    The voice in the intro makes me think of Rafiki from Lion King :smiley:

    Cogratulations to all of you! I enjoyed this a lot! Thanks for making a great piece!
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