Halloween song demo- Werewolves of London

Michael4000

Please provide feedback for improvement.

Yes, that's my 2-year-old you can faintly hear screaming in the background, lol.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=utLOmXugt-w

highmtn

Very nice. Fun. Use just a little more downpush on those "werewolves of London" low notes, to hold the air a litte more steady.

Good Job!

[Deleted User]

That's pretty good for the short time you've been here, and seasonally appropriate too!.
Nice job Michael.

Peace, Tony

Michael4000

@videoace Thanks guys for your feedback. @highmtn I know you're not supposed to post the same thing in more than one place on the forum, but can you recommend another section where I can post this to get more feedback and the critics will be more "harsh" lol. I think I will be able to have more patience going through the volumes at a slower pace if I'm also posting songs and getting plenty of critical feedback. Also if you could give me some more critical feedback, that would be helpful too. I'm not one to get discouraged much by criticism, I just want to get the song sounding better.

[Deleted User]

The category you want to post in for more critical feedback is the "Vocal Demonstrations for the Bold"
When you get to that page, just hit new discussion at the top (on my computer it's blue), and post your link.

Peace, Tony

HuduVudu

@Michael4000 I was just trying to give you a starting point, so go with what Tony said. He is correct.

highmtn

OK. So now this is moved to the wide-open public.

doc_ramadani

@Michael4000: And you really have to work on your timing - way to loose. Most at the beginning your are gallopping over the lyrics. - You want it harsher?

Michael4000

@doc_ramadani that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Can you explain that a little more for me about timing/galloping over lyrics? I don't totally understand what you're saying.

doc_ramadani

@Michael4000: You are not on the beat. You can train that by using a metronome and do like a rap-version of the song. It is likely with poems - if you do not have the right metrum it sounds a kind of ... wrong.

doc_ramadani

Sorry, I am on duty and have not so much time. Maybe I can clarify it better this evening.

HuduVudu

@Michael4000 what @doc_ramadani is saying is that you are speeding up and slowing down when you are singing.

Timing issues are very common with singers, it can make singers sound really bad even when everything else is spot on. The way that I corrected this issue in the past was to sing with the original singer about 40 or so times then I would get the karaoke track and sing through it about 20 times. After doing that I felt pretty comfortable with the song. Then a couple karaoke outings cemented it in place.

Needless to say that process is pretty time consuming, so what I did about 3 months into my KTVA course was to add timing exercises and I also made all of my practices a consistent BPM with a consistent note length. This seems to be helping a lot.

My two cents

doc_ramadani

Thanks to @HuduVudu for covering me. I had a hard day with a lot of patients. @HuduVudu gave you 2 great advices. Sometimes it is very helpful to use constant BPM to work on your timing. Instrumentalists now that. When I am working on the guitar (i.e. learning licks) I start at 80 BPM and increase it step by step up to 180+. Whatever tempo I need. I spend a lot of time on learning the lick in lower tempo, nearly in slow motion. Speed comes by itself.

Timing is very critical to my experience especially for keyboard players and singers. Drummers, Bass players and Guitar players are often used to play to the metronome. Keyboards players are often told to give their feeling a fly. That is okay if you are playing alone, but not in a band. Singers often never ever heard heard of the "clicking" apparatus.

But timing is very crucial for Singers. As @HuduVudu wrote: "it can make singers sound really bad even when everything else is spot on." - How would it sound if Sheena wouldn't have been in tight timing on this song (Sometimes english grammar eludes my insights):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_3vZYOYNYU

But there is a good way for Singers to train this tight timing. I use a App that ist called "Anytune" which is able to tune tracks up/down and even slow them down or speed them up. This might also help to work on the timing. I suggest to start at real slower speeds often. Get the groove first - speed comes by itself.

Nevertheless, @Michael4000 it is very good to see that you take this so serious - and - that you are a invigorating member of this forum.

Happy Helloween,
Doc

Michael4000

@doc_ramadani @HuduVudu thank you both for these insights. I totally see your point about timing being important in singing. But in this particular song do you think that timing is a little different than most songs because it seems to be very "talky" for lack of a better word? A lot of the lines have many syllables rapidly in a row on the same pitch. How does a singer handle this? I thought it allowed for more freedom but I also don't want it to be coming off as loose as Doc said. What do you guys think?

Also what other issues can you hear in addition to timing that I can work ?

doc_ramadani

@Michael4000: Your are absolutely right - in the song you've chosen the timing isn't as important as in other songs. The perfect not-to-be-on-the-beat is a stylistic choice in the first 2 verses. And besides: if you would have weared a pumpkin while singing the song our vote wouldn't have been as bad as you deserved it.

Truthfully I had to look up the song myself. It is originally by Warren Zevon. Is that right?

It listened to it. But Warren is more on the beat (tries it) than you and has a pretty good timing, at least on the two first verses.

You called that style "talky" - Yeah, that is right. It is hard to put so many words in such a short time (Chapeau, you rappers). And to be honest, in the third verse Warren Zevon is of the beat, too.

Kind regards,
Doc

PS.:

I would put it in the pocket "Songs that I thought could work for my voice but didn't" - That playlist includes 147 songs for myself."

HuduVudu

@Michael4000 I don't think that the timing is different for this song per se. I think that timing is everything for this song, and timing is a big topic here. You captured the small pitch jumps but you failed to capture the timing, and the syllabic emphasis which is just more timing. I see what your doing as being a lot like what karaoke singers do especially new ones. You have to feel the rhythm of the song. Then you the singer move in and out with the lyrics over the foundation that the band puts down. It is all very playful and theatric. If you watch most karaoke singers they look bored while they are singing. This isn't compelling. The other thing that I see is that they try to make it seem like they feel the music when they don't and, that just comes across as contrived.

I was once at a karaoke bar and a guy sang a Michael Jackson tune. He sounded terrible sonically. He wasn't even close to in range and really he didn't care. What he did and did very well was to play with the sound through timing. People were really entertained by him, and he got pretty much a standing ovation for sucking. On one of my recent adventures in karaoke I sang the Bruno Mars song Uptown funk. OMG I could not hit the notes my voice cracked ... but I had the feel and the timing down. I really liked the song and people could tell, everyone was clapping everyone was singing. Singing is at the end of the day entertainment. People that want to be singers often don't understand this. You can have super awesome range and great everything but if you come off like a dead fish no one wants to listen to you.

Maybe that can help you understand

doc_ramadani

Oh @HuduVudu, this is the first time we totally contradict us - at least in the first section of your comment. But we come together at the end. - I guess, I was wrong at least on the second issue.

Michael4000

Great feedback guys, thanks.

[Deleted User]

With all of that said....you're still doing a fine job. Just keep doing what you're doing, and add the recommendations with it. Inch by inch we can walk a mile.

Peace, Tony

doc_ramadani

Absolutely agree (@videoace) -really great job. @Michael4000 begged for a harsher critique (see above)

Michael4000

It's true I did.

[Deleted User]

I'm not scolding anybody here. You're big boys. lol

Peace, Tony

Michael4000

Haha