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Can I really learn to sing on pitch?

Hey guys - I have listened to Ken's YouTube tutorials for some time but before I go in on paying for the course I want some concrete answers on fixing my pitch problem. I cannot sing on pitch. I have been working on it for months and can only just now hum middle C and D. But I cannot hit those notes outside of humming and I can never hit them the first try, I always let a note out and then raise or lower it to match. And that is difficult for me because although I do not think I am tone deaf, I am pretty close. I have played instruments for years so I know a decent amount of music theory.

In short, my question is this: can I actually learn to sing on pitch if I have trouble hearing when I am or am not off?

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Answers

  • jacobtate24jacobtate24 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks guys, great to hear. Being a musician I know the dedication and practice it takes so I am definitely willing to put in the time.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,353
    If you are having difficulties discerning pitch, you may want to use a pitch app along with the course that will help you to know when you are sharp, flat, or right on the money. You can try a free 30 day trial of something like Sing and See.

    Ken does give a lot of information about pitch, as well as exercises, but you must also train your ears, brain, and voice to work together. The tone you use with your voice makes a big difference, and Ken shows you how to get the right tone. But you will have to work at it, just like learning to tune a guitar without a tuner. It's very similar, except you are the instrument.
  • VocalityVocality 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,601
    @jacobtate24

    There's another good exercise you can do you need a pitch app for verifcation.

    1. Goto www.tonedear.com website select perfect pitch ( this will be your random note generator)
    2. Start off with simple C D E notes.
    3. Listen to the first note sing that note with pitch app running enter the actual note you sung into pitch app and enter it into toned ear.
    4. Do this every day say 15 minutes.

    Now C D and E will be played over 3 octave so if a note is too high skip the note and do these gently.

    I was amazed how far off I was on some of the notes, found with this exercise quickly zoned in with regular practice.

    Vocality
  • NathancNathanc Member, 2.0 PRO Posts: 27
    I use an app called Singer's Studio. It is very helpful. I also think it's helpful to use a keyboard and do tone matching. Play notes that are comfortable on the keyboard and then sing along with them. Or use a pitch pipe app and sing to those notes.
    If you were tone deaf, I don't think you'd like music much, so I don't think you are tone deaf.
  • NathancNathanc Member, 2.0 PRO Posts: 27
    One more thing, electronic keyboards seem to help more than guitars since the keyboard is perfectly tuned.
  • VocalityVocality 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,601
    Everyone will find what works best dealing with pitch, like Ken says many reasons for pitch issues, a good pitch app is a good start to check where we are going wrong. A musical instrument is a good tool especially learning to sing melodies that helped me quite a bit.
  • SteveStanSteveStan 2.0 PRO Posts: 81
    This is a good thread so let me ask a question:

    For a total newbie (of 47yo:), what is the best way for me to get started without creating bad habits? I began with the speaking course exercises and then the starter Volume 1 of Singing 2.0 exercises.

    I understand full abdominal support from my experience with public speaking. That's the one and only thing of which I have a decent grasp. The bright ping L'AH is hard, the uvula rarely disappears completely, only with great effort but working on it.

    Pitch is terra incognita for me. Unfortunately, so is a good ear. I get the app part, etc.

    BUT I wonder if it is a good idea to try and hold one note at a time first? Like F2, G2, A2, B2, C3 would be easiest for me. Using an app, it seems that I normally do it sharp. I think I have a tendency to go flat on F2 but as a whole it is a very prevalent sharp tendency.

    Thanks for any comments.
  • VocalityVocality 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,601
    @mas4r

    Pitch was difficult for me as well especially at the start, Volume 1 is a good start to sort the bad habits out, regular ear training 20 minutes per day practicing intervals on www.tonedear.com start with basic 3rd 5th and octave. Ken also has the toggling exercises under better pitch in volume 1 folder do these regular until you feel you have a good grasp on the exercises.

    BUT I wonder if it is a good idea to try and hold one note at a time first? Like F2, G2, A2, B2, C3 would be easiest for me. Using an app, it seems that I normally do it sharp. I think I have a tendency to go flat on F2 but as a whole it is a very prevalent sharp tendency.


    Yes practcing holding one note at a time, working with pitch stay well within your range and as you improve you can gradually move into higher notes. One of the most important things to do find out what kind pitch issue you have, is it hearing you can check that with tonedear or you can hear pitch well but getting the brain to tell the voice the correct pitch is harder then random note exercises hear the note sing the note and check with pitch app.

    Would recommend trying out all those exercises just to get a feel on where your at in the different areas and posting demos of your triad scale can also help with areas you need to improve upon.

    Vocality




  • SteveStanSteveStan 2.0 PRO Posts: 81
    Thanks! I did in fact begin with www.tonedear.com today, thanks to this thread.

    Baby steps. Newborn steps, if you will. Just doing C3-C4-C5 and the C3-5, A3-5 questions and double checking with a virtual piano and also an app on the phone. Lots of fun, actually.

    One more question! A note is basically just a frequency right? And so if we take the interval between E2 and F2, a sharp E2 is an in-between frequency closer to E2 and a flat F2 is an "in-betweener" closer to F2 than to E2, am I getting this right?
  • VocalityVocality 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,601
    @SteveStan

    Firstly when I started tonedear over 1 year ago got about 50% correct and now averaging just over 90% it takes quite a bit of time but 15-20 min quick exercise daily.

    E2 to F2 is a semitone or half step there is no black note on the piano between E & F the same for B to C also a half step in between frequency.

    Vocality

  • SteveStanSteveStan 2.0 PRO Posts: 81
    edited June 2023
    Vocality said:

    @SteveStan

    Firstly when I started tonedear over 1 year ago got about 50% correct and now averaging just over 90% it takes quite a bit of time but 15-20 min quick exercise daily.

    E2 to F2 is a semitone or half step there is no black note on the piano between E & F the same for B to C also a half step in between frequency.

    Vocality

    So I have been with tonedear.com for over 1 year now. I have had gaps. I have had long sequences of lots of practice.

    I can do A, C, D or A, C, E pretty well, meaning 20/20 most of the time. BUT:

    1/ ACDE : I have been able to get it pretty good only to lose it. Nowadays, I can get a 20/20 or 26/27 or 38/41 or whatever but it is not as easy as it was at one point. So I am not even trying to go beyond for now.

    2/ I see exactly zero applicability to guitar which I picked up June 15 though I have been having nerve/neck//hand issues for 6 months now. Maybe piano-voice but the notes on guitar, same frequencies or whatever, absolutely do not sound the same.

    So I am continuing because it is a fun, but it is really just a toy.

    I do the Volume 2 exercises 20 times per month for my speaking needs and it has been working fantastically for me but I am not even thinking of monitoring pitch (no time/desire right now trying to figure my health out and spending the time on guitar instead).

    Maybe if I am forced to stop guitar altogether for a long period, then I will try to get more into pitch for voice.

    I find working intervals on guitar a lot more intuitive and useful, especially if I am not looking (which I cannot because of the neck/nerve issues so I am noob of 1-year who plays without looking, no kidding) because when I am not looking I find that I focus a lot better on the sound.

    Anyway,

    Cheers and hope it has been going well for you!
  • VocalityVocality 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,601
    @SteveStan

    Glad to see your sticking at it, providing your doing intervals regular and keeping up with the training. My scales now are super accurate compared from what they used to be. Now at the point sing most notes accurately and my singing of songs now has improved greatly. I now have a much more positive outlook going forward and in my opinion pitch issues can be sorted there's no question.

    Been doing the course for nearly 5 years and found biggest improvements on the 4th year. currently on volume 2 feel its comfortable for me at the moment but occasionally drop back to volume 1 from time to time. Also found monitoring played a part discovered the importance of being able to hear your own voice over the backing track/music. Setup my mixer so i can adjust the music level bethout effecting the main mix and some tracks can be louder than others this helped alot!!!

    George
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