i was surprised with my first win at a vocal/karaoke contest. the warm-up exercises really make a difference in endurance and clarity. so much so without strain or hurting (yeah!)
I'm having trouble with the phrase "Let It Be, Let It Be" I'm obviously closing something off while still trying to have the glottal compression...still learning....
I think you will have better luck on the "Let it be's" if you say "it" as "eht". Subtle, not obvious. leh teh tbe, leh teh tbe
The "ih" sound is to be avoided, especially up high. You could ease off on your consonants in this phrase also (as well as in general). If the E in "be" is too high, the "EE" sound can convert to eh as in led also. So that would be leh teh tbeh (slightly more EE in it than eh as in led.
If I may offer a couple more suggestions, there are some places where the nasal resonance should be less obvious or held over. That would be on "There will be an answer", "To the sound of music".
The second BE of the "Let it be" choruses is on a G4. You could sustain a straight G4 without the downward bend sometimes and see how that works for you.
Thank you again. I think you are spot on with the areas you have pointed out. I want to make sure I am placing the voice right. If I am, now I have to work on vowels / consonants / phrasing to help me even more. Thank you again, you are really a big help!
I still get to the video with the blow-by-blow from your original post. The video itself isn't displayed, but the link takes me right to the video. That was what I saw the first time I saw your posting, as well.
And, I can get you a good deal on designer Michael Jordan running shoes! Seriously, I've been deleting many, many spambots a day and they keep popping up! Nigel has closed the floodgates, but many of them got through and have time-delay activators. I'll be mopping them up for a while.
Custodian to the Spam aisle, with a mop, please!!!
Darnit. I used to have a post somewhere which tracked my progress with examples and dates but I can't find it.
Allas, here is a music video I made... it's a parody of Dumb ways to die. Only this features superheroes flying.
I wrote the lyrics and did all the singing and mixing as well as all the animation. it was tough work.
The last chorus has NO pitch correction. For the rest I went through and corrected here and there.
It was an eye-opening experience. Es specially on the verses where pitch isn't as crucial... there were some bum
notes that reeked. Multi-tracking makes corrections essential sometimes.
I honestly think this is better than many of the parodies out there... but ranking well in youtube searches is a mystery to me despite my knowledge of google SEO.
Here's a cover of Whole Lotta Love that we did at a 30 year reunion gig. Please let me know what you hear. I sang a lot as a teenager with no idea what I was doing, my technique was pretty much open my mouth and see what happens. Haven't sang a lot for a long time but trying to get back into it. I have been doing the workouts for a couple months now and have shown some improvement but still have a long way to go. I still have a hard time transferring the techniques from the workouts into live singing. I also have a hard time distinguishing whether I am in head, chest or mixed voice. Any critiques appreciated.
Here is a cover of one of my favorite Queen songs "Spread Your Wings." This is where my voice is at so far after finishing up Volume 1. I still lack proper breath support and probably many other things, but I feel a major improvement already. Let me know what you guys think, Thanks!
Hey all. I am still on level 1 making slow progress due to work and personal commitments but I've been recording the odd performance here and there. This is me having a go at A Change Is Going To Come - I am struggling a bit with alternative vowel mods when it is an EE vowel sound but any other tips appreciated.
Nice demo. You're doing very well for so early in the course. You have a few minor carbuncles here and there, but overall you did a great job. Yes, you will sound even better as you improve your support.
You sing from your heart. That will take you far. Keep working Ken's exercises. You'll keep on growing.
I know what you mean about slow progress due to work obligations. All you can do is all you can do. I'm in the same boat in many ways. That said, the higher priority you put on your vocal studies, the more you can expect to progress.
Regarding the EE vowel, when you do the slide up on "kneeeeeees" you might want to modify from EE to EA E-eh(as in led). Just morph from Pure EE down low into eh up high.
Ken is a big fan of Sam Cooke. Sam had a lot of soulful sound and wonderful technique.
You did a very good job and sang it with a lot of heart. Good job.
@highmtn thanks for that. I did that slide on knees accidentally really as it should have just been a short knees followed by a more open whoa or similar but the advice is relevant to so many other songs - I'm looking at Always by Bon Jovi that has "be" and "me" in quick succession so will try this modification on that. Much appreciated.
It was very enjoyable hearing you sing and play. You have a nice unique style and sound to both your singing and guitar playing.
A few, short bits of friendly feedback to you. Your voice has a bit more air than might be healthy. It sounds very good in the style, but so would a bit more cord closure, which might help towards longevity in your voice. And of course, the ever-present support. There are areas where more support would have made a big difference.
I'm working on support myself, so I'm one to talk, but by my own foibles I can tell you it's something we all need to work at until it's ever-present. Support will carry your voice where nothing else will.
This is a wonderful song. I'm very glad you posted it.
I checked out Starry Eyes on YouTube and enjoyed listening to you on that one as well.
What exactly you should be doing and feeling whilst attempting this difficult task: Patience.
This is a process that will take considerable time, but be well worth the effort and the time invested.
The barrier you speak about, the escarpment of F#4-G#4 is a familiar one. It is followed by the ever-present A4-C5 ridge.
You can't just burst your way through these areas. You have to approach range-extension more gently than you might think. And keep on approaching it. You will have to reduce the girth and the force you are singing with.
Try a lighter version of chest voice instead of trying to push an elephant through a keyhole. Keep gently working at getting into and past these notes without forcing. After a long enough time, your voice will figure out that it really can get through these areas and that they don't have to be a nuclear explosion.
After you can attain the notes in a lighter fashion, you can work on adding some appropriate amount of weight that is sustainable, much like learning to smooth your passagio lightly at first, then stronger as practicable.
Give it time. Lots and lots of time. Don't try to get too far too fast. It will come.
With that in mind, I'm still attempting to stretch my chest voice, but even though I think I'm doing it carefully, I always seem to suffer for it later. I'm fine for a short time, but once I stop singing, then go back to it, I find the F#4/G4/G#4 area, really shaky. Is this normal? Or am I just doing it incorrectly? If it's the latter, and I'm perhaps falling back into old ingrained, bad habits, what exactly should I be doing/feeling, whilst I'm attempting this difficult task?
I think it is probably a mixture of your voice not yet being strong enough and you are probably not supporting enough or cutting back the air like ken shows at the base of the neck. I also suffered with these problems to the extent where i had to stop at the start. Think cutting back the air particularly helped and also not trying to power through when things start to tense up as this is a sign you are doing something wrong sometimes i think it is better to come back and fight another day rather than singing for another hour with bad technique and making yourself hoarse. Or keep a checklist in front of you and make sure you are supporting correctly doing the correct vowel mods and cutting back the air.
As a suggestion, I would recommend that you listen to the WayPoint videos on Vocal Tract shaping and start moving towards keeping your vocal tract open to the dominant vowels, line by line.
Also, your delivery is a little spikey, in that it's broken up into little pieces by consonants.
After watching the vocal tract videos, come back and try to sing this song more legato, or strung together like a string of pearls, rather than a series of spikes. Make your phrases long and linked together with light consonants joining all of the pieces into long, contiguous, continuous phrases.
Be sure to support like there's no tomorrow, especially all of those high notes. You have pretty good pitch. The added support and more legato approach will really help to put more of a shine on your performance. This technique will also allow you to open up and really employ the advantages of Open Throat Singing.
You have a lot going for you. Incorporate these KTVA techniques into your singing and grow that much more!
great feedback bob not sure where your post has gone now though I have been working on the things you suggested but u know how it goes you concentrate on one thing then forget all of the other things I will get there eventually! Think I will have to have a lesson with Ken very soon.
My big thing is trying to get more Gollotal compression but I'm just not sure i'm supporting enough?
Also on the A5 notes at the end it takes everything I have and in terms of vowel modification am I still trying to target "oo" as in hook with and "aa" mouth for a note as high as that? it just always sounds so squeezed.
the stuff i heard on your channel really sounds good. I can hear the difference. your voice was nice then, but now it sounds strong and more pleasant too. congrats!
I have some of the same comments on this song as I gave on Eye of the Tiger.
You have a strong voice and a pretty good range.
What I notice a lot in both of these demos is again the spikey way the really loud notes shoot up above the level of the rest of the song.
It would be an improvement if you could try to make a more consistent, contiguous flow of sound, vs a less consistent, spikey flow. When you use more real support for the high notes, they will lay more into the track than shoot up above the rest. Support will enable you to sing those high notes more musically without shouting them.
The result will be a more pleasant and polished finished product.
Please don't take this as a put-down. It's intended to give you a leg up!
thanks @bob I am working on my support a lot at the moment but i often either seem to run out of diaphragm or don't manage to grab hold of it to push down on(hope you know what i mean by this). I've been working on trying to keep the diaphragm so that i push down on it but only use a quarter of it then refill the lungs again is this what I should be doing? If i cant figure it out i will have to get ken to help me with it in our upcoming lesson it is not until 10th september tho so i got a bit more time to figure it out myself.
When you got your mojo workin' on your support, you will push down on your guts, and when you do it right, you will notice that instead of blasting loudly, your high notes will be sung, not blasted. Your voice will sound full, but not overfull. Your volume on the supported high notes will be more even with your lower, easier notes. In fact, all of your notes will sound easy, because they will be easier when you support.
The word "support" can make people think you are putting more force into the sound. In fact, you are controlling your volume, keeping it from peaking by reducing the volume with more support each time you would otherwise force more air out to hit a note. When you push down, you reduce the force of the outgoing air.
Put your effort into support rather than tightening your throat muscles or forcing blasts of air out. Instead, work on getting a more consistent flow, powered entirely from your abdominal area with a downward force.
@highmtn (or anyone else) have you got any more specific tips on making my consonant sounds softer. I'm really struggling to do this whilst still making sure i am singing words people can understand? I've heard that you can use a g instead of hard K or C sounds and D instead of T is this something i should do are there any other tips along these lines?
here is me doing it taking out the consonant sounds is this better in terms of spikeyness? also does it highlight any mistakes i'm making with my support as i'm struggling with consonant sounds and support but i think the consonant sounds are making me struggle even more with support as i can support my scales when i sing them. I think I am using too much of my support too soon and running out of air what do you think?
@marc the spikyness isn't so much to do with the consonant sounds as it is with the tendency to get a bit "shouty" on the higher notes (but overuse of consonant sounds would accentuate it). In that demo of Always you are obviously not articulating nearly enough for an actual performance, but it's often a good idea when exercising.
What you want to do is regulate your airflow so that it stays as consistent as possible. That way you won't get the excessive increase in volume in the chorus (some increase is to be expected). Also the biggest problem is really just that you are straining like a mofo in the choruses, in particular on "and I... WILL love you". But "Always" is a bitch of a song to sing, like most of Bon Jovi's material, so don't be disheartened. You're not that far away from getting it right at all. Just need to relax your throat and tongue much more and get that soft palate raised higher, in order to get the fully open throat position going.
edit: also for this type of material you are going to need your vowel mods, so try pronouncing "will" more as "well" for example.
Hello I need some serious help, which is why I'm here! I am fairly certain that I have a lower range, probably a low baritone. Unfortunately most rock music seems to be sung in a high register.
Here is my attempt at a song that I have a lot of trouble with and I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement, which is why'd I'd love to have you guys listen to it and tell me how I can improve!
thanks @ragnar I think I have a lot to work on definitely need to reign in my voice a bit volumewise i think you are right I am shouting a bit to much. Oh and don't worry I know not to sing like that infront of a live audience i'm not about to sing like that at an xfactor audition lol.
Hi @overdriveisclassy we are all here for the same reason at the moment you are pronouncing everything a bit as you would say it. You are singing hard on the consonant sounds and not modifying your vowel sounds which is causing you to get caught up until eventually the pressure gets too much for you to handle and then you are going in and out of your head voice to escape it. 'and seldom do these words ring true' this is a difficult phrase to sing as you have uh vowel oo vowel i vowel and E vowel all in one phrase all of which are difficult to sing and can cause you to get caught up on the chords. Try and keep an Oh vowel open through out the uh and oo (you) vowels and modify the i and E vowel more to ei(ght) or eh. Also try and be a little light on your consonant sounds. Listen to the others more than me though as I'm still not great myself
Actually there are a lot of improvements in this consonantless version. You are beginning to get a more consistent flow, which will help with keeping the vocal tract in the open position.
I agree with ragnar in that is still has shouty moments, especially when you are reaching for your high notes. I also agree with ragnar that you are not that far from getting it right.
Consistency in the level will really work wonders on the listenability of your voice and give it a more professional sheen.
Don't worry so much about adding the consonants back in. I think you should try what you did in this version a little more to get the hang of it a bit more. Then add the very least amount possible of consonants. Just a HINT of the consonants, the minimum possible. See how little consonant you can get away with restoring. You'll be surprised at how little consonant it takes to make people THINK you sang it the normal way. Less is more with consonants.
Good job on trying something that seems goofy, but is really a gateway to great singing. This is a big step in the right direction for you.
Your voice IS stronger in the lower register, but then you hit a few C5's in your demo.
The C5's sound like you're not supported and need more confidence, but you ARE hitting them.
So it's off to the woodshed for you! Practice, work those scales, and build your support.
You will need to do a lot of workouts to get your upper range built up to the level that your lower register can currently handle.
Don't beat yourself up for the areas that are lacking strength. Instead, do your workouts, and turn your weaknesses into your strengths! Don't fool yourself. It will take time and a lot of work, but note-by-note, you can build your strength up to the point that this song will become much easier for you.
You may want to practice working out to it in a higher key, up a half-step or two. Then when you drop it back down to the original key, it won't be quite so hard to do.
Do realize that those higher-range passages are going to take a whole lot of support, and I mean a LOT! You should be singing those parts right from your gut, not your throat.
thanks @highmtn and @ragnar for your advice I think it is really going to help take me to the next level. I think removing consonant sounds is going to be a great tool to allow me to sing more difficult songs without going hoarse as well so i can start strengthening my voice in the higher ranges safely when practicing and I think i finally had a eureka moment last night (after a couple of pints of real cider ). I realised i am singing things i'm struggling with far too heavy and held back a bit on the volume and it was starting to sound smoother still a way to go but hopefully you will notice the improvement when i next post a demo. I should also thank @sspatrick as well for helping me realise i am also going into head voice when i'm struggling as it sounded even worst before i realised this
Yes, the realization that you don't have to slam vowels to get to high notes is something that is a little counterintuitive. It's an important milestone to pass.
You ask a lot of questions and you take advice well. One step at a time, you will make big improvements with your voice.
That was pretty cool the bit where you said body is was good but think you need to give more of a hint of the s but good vowel mods you say list 'i' n quite a lot when it should be l 'eh' st 'eh' n.
Hi, I've been doing KTVA for about a month and a half now. This is a
Chinese song, and I'm trying to get a smooth, clean sound, but it seems
to go nasal on me, not to mention the other common problems (breath
support etc..). Anyway, I look forward to your advice/criticism on how
to get a nicer tone.
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This sounds pretty good, really. Its a little thin when you go into head voice, and your support in head voice needs to be stronger so your voice won't waver. Your chest voice sounds more consistent.
To me, the tone doesn't sound nasal, but you could possibly benefit by watching Ken's video on the Nasopharyngeal Port. You can close off the port and open up the back of the throat more. That can make for a richer-sounding voice.
You're the guitar player, right? I think you and the drummer should have a secret meeting and vote the bass player out of the band...
Ha ha, just kidding! It sounds good.
I am concerned about the growl at the end. That's what concerned me about some of your other demos, too. Growling can be one of the most destructive things you can do to your vocal cords. You may feel no ill effects currently, but it could take a huge toll over the course of a few years. It would be a shame to damage your voice permanently.
What countermeasures are you employing to protect your voice when you growl?
@highmtn I've been doing growls ever since I began my singing journey. For whatever reason it seemed to actually help me sing higher. I presume maybe because it activated my support. I don't do them so much anymore, but on occasion like in this song I do. My voice gets tired after a lot of it and I may be hoarse for a bit, but generally I don't feel any ill effects like you mentioned.
I certainly don't want to risk permanent damage to my voice, but hearing all my favorite rock singers do it makes me think it can't be that bad as they still have amazing voices. Right now I'm just doing growls occasionally and always follow them with clean singing like a cool down.
For all those who missed it, here is the Queensryche video we have been discussing. As noted by Bob, the interesting part is the Blow-by-Blow description of the techniques is interesting . . . enjoy . . .
thanks for posting this, I appreciate his talent and how he broke down his approach to the song. I really enjoyed the Toto Africa cover by Mike Masse and would definitely see him and his duo bassist if they came to my town. I also have been enjoying your recordings, and would like to see how you sing them live sometime.
Borrowing from @cgreen I wanted to post this link to a Mike Masse youtube clip because he really shows his tongue position in this Boston cover.
I'm curious why his tongue doesn't go up like Ken's does at the high pitches? Regardless, I enjoy watching (and more importantly hearing) both Mike and Ken's youtube songs.
Looking forward to learn how to sing with that type of freedom.... and longevity. Its encouraging to learn that we can maintain our range for so long because so many of the rock singers I used to like are not able to sing as well as they used to.
I've been going through some of the webinars, and am really enjoying the content, as well as the postings from some of the KTLV members. Really glad to be part of this community!
Wow. This is really a hard song. You just keep putting up lots of demos, so I know you can take the evaluations.
We've talked before about how some consonants can sound slammed, and really peaky-sounding vocals.
This one is especially tough because of the way the song is written: lots of choppy, rhythmic, consonant-driven words and phrases.
I can hear you trying to de-emphasize the consonants, but in a choppy song like this, it's quite a challenge.
What this song needs, especially at this stage of your development, is to be more legato. That means smooth (if you're not familiar with that term). Again, if you look at the sound file you can see how peaky this song is. This is not the best song to practice getting a smoother delivery. That said, what will improve this performance is more support and to make the words more contiguous and more even.
Again, this is a difficult melody with a very wide range. You did crash and burn a couple of times, but you know that. Most of the song you are right on pitch.
If you really want to tackle this song, I recommend you break it down into sections and spend as much time as necessary to deal with each and every aspect of every section. The parts that are giving you trouble you need to spend even more time with, so you can gather your support for those tough notes and also work on a smoother delivery.
Don't put the sections together until you have worked out each section separately, including your delivery.
You are working really hard and I admire you for that. I know you are anxious to sing the really tough songs and to nail them. Songs like this are going to take some time, and you are going to have to hone your chops to get them down at the level you want to achieve.
That means lots and lots of practice, on each and every detail. Line-by-line. Then you put it together.
Don't set your lesson workouts aside to learn songs. Keep up with your workouts. Listen to your own recordings and take cues from yourself on what parts you should be working on more. Don't beat yourself up. Every note that's not what you want it to be is an opportunity for improvement.
Sorry for all the posts lately but i'm really working my voice hard and appreciate all your comments. I'm still not happy with the forever and a day line any suggestions?
I couldn't get your 21/9/13 demo to play, for whatever reason.
The jar of hearts demo did play for me, however.
It's still sounding rough, but I do hear incremental improvements. You're really working hard to improve, and I'm encouraged by your steadfastness and desire to improve. You are going to have to keep on keeping on... I have a feeling that's your style, you just keep slamming until the wall comes down.
Don't hurt yourself. Realize that this is a process that takes time, and some of it is just allowing your voice to mature over time. That part you can't hurry up. BUT your perseverance WILL pay off for you. I can hear you adding one and then another golden nugget that comes from each time you offer another demo for feedback.
All of that said, you still need to keep working to strengthen your support, make your voice very consistent, avoid singing in a shouty manner, smooth out the peaks in your voice, stay within your present range or spend more time working out the parts that are a stretch for you before you submit for critique, etc...
As you incorporate these suggestions, little-by-little the improvements begin to take root.
Don't give up. Give yourself time. Lots of time. Time working on the improvements and techniques.
Record yourself and listen to yourself on the recordings. Give yourself feedback. Record all of your practicing and critique yourself. Make adjustments. Repeat. Adjust more. Listen. Repeat.
Hey! I just released an EP with my band! I'm singing and playing guitar. It would be cool to get some feedback from all of you! don't be afraid to give negative criticism I want to improve so I can take it!
Hey! I just released an EP with my band! I'm singing and playing guitar. It would be cool to get some feedback from all of you! don't be afraid to give negative criticism I want to improve so I can take it!
I listened to the first song. Really good song, awesome bass-riff. If it were me I would be unsatisfied with two things vocally: overall I would want to be singing at least half an octave higher in general. Secondly I would want to be singing heavier and more powerful in general, since the tone if the music is really boomy and bass heavy.
Try a little more support on "I... will love you" at 0:27; "Always" at 0:34 is one of those notes that comes out too hard on the ears. Pull back and use more support there so the note is easier for you to sing and also easier to listen to. See how much taller the waveforms are on Always? That's too much power there. It needs to sound more reserved.
Overall there are a lot of improvements showing up on this track. I am looking for consistency from you. Very controlled, unshouty, beautiful singing, i.e. Bel Canto.
do you mean i am losing support at the end of that 'i will love you' phrase? i think i was concentrating more on the bit from baby onwards more so that probably would explain why i forgot to push down on my support at the end of that phrase. I see what you mean about the Always bit but i think i am onto it now lots of light bulbs going off at the moment and stopped going hoarse which is always a good thing.
Hello divas and dudes. I'm several weeks into volume 1 now and recorded two songs for your assessment.
I'm a beginner whose sense of pitch used to be literally non-existent and whose tone was airy as hell (couldn't move past the ominous F#4 barrier). Please consider this while listening
The first track is a U2 cover - far from perfect, I know, but does not feel difficult to sing:
@tomasz hi I think you need to work on not slamming into and covering vowel sounds try to open them up a bit more. The 'I' as in kite vowel should go to Aa or Ah dont sing it straight. For AA sounds open it up more you are covering it sing it more eh. You are also slamming E sounds as in please and 'i' vowels as in lick again this should be more towards eh or 'ei'ght. It also sounds quite nasally to me as well maybe you are trying to sing too much in your high modifications too early and going into your head voice a bit early also covering the vowels is adding to the nasal sound?
@tomasz. I hear a lack of support first of all. Your pitch is all right but you are using a lot if air and not opening up the vowel sounds. Marc's comments on opening up the vowels is great. I would really work on adding a lot more support/volume.
Try to brighten it up some more. Open up, too. It's a little pinched and closed-down. Like marc said, make it more AH. This is a really good first try. You're on a good track. I expect good things from you.
Will definitely take your advice into consideration - i've never ever thought I'm using to much air - quite the opposite - that I'm holding my breath too tight in order to stay connected. It's only recently that I found I could sing lightly in the mid-fourth octave and the way I sing is going through changes again. I'll surely try to improve my support.
Opening the vowels makes sense to me - I'll go through each phrase syllable by syllable and see what can be done.
HI this is my demonstration of two stage 2 exercises. I hope I'm doing them right. Please give your valuable feedback.I recorded it from my cellphone so please excuse the quality.
@pranav you have your thing set to private so we cant see it. You need to click on share under the demos and it will give you a secret link if you post that link here only we will be able to see it.
@pranav on your Ah ooh Oh Ah exercise you need to make sure you sing all the different vowel sounds at the moment i cant hear the difference between ooh and Oh. For your Ah vowel scale you need to keep the Ah more open before you modify to l'o'ft and then h'oo'k at the moment you seem to be closing down a little too early to h'oo'k then trying to reopen it again at the top.
to clarify for the ah ooh Oh Ah exercise it is LAh Ah Ah y'ou' t'oe' Ah Ah Ah Ah. At least this is how i understand it or should it be LAh Ah Ah y'ou' t'oe' Aa Aa Aa Aa perhaps one of the others can clarify@highmtn? Don't suppose it makes a massive difference.
Soundcloud sometimes doesn't play nice. I can't hear your Ah Oh Ooh Ah exercise.
Your Exercise 19 is playing and you are doing some good things in that one.
Good things: Nice beginning tone, good support, nice laryngeal tilt in the 3 successive bends on each instance of the scale.
Things to consider working on: Try to keep that nice, bright pingy tone going that you start each scale with. As you ascend, it gets a little more covered each time. Solution: Really open up and smile as you ascend and don't close down the vowel until you get to a place where you need the loft, hook, and Ooh mods.
Good pitch. Again, I don't get to say this enough, so here goes: Good job on the support!
@highmtn Thanks a lot Bob and Marc for your feedbacks. I'm feeling more and more confident in my singing now. I don't know how to tag. Bob I guess all your help with support is working now. The reason I closed my mouth was the fear I'll not be able to do the vowel mods if I don't do it quick enough. I'm gettting rid of that idea and opening more and more.
Comments
That was so shameless, I had to cry!
Congratulations!
I'm having trouble with the phrase "Let It Be, Let It Be" I'm obviously closing something off while still trying to have the glottal compression...still learning....
Thank you!
Hello again, Noel.
This sounds pretty good, too.
I think you will have better luck on the "Let it be's" if you say "it" as "eht". Subtle, not obvious. leh teh tbe, leh teh tbe
The "ih" sound is to be avoided, especially up high. You could ease off on your consonants in this phrase also (as well as in general). If the E in "be" is too high, the "EE" sound can convert to eh as in led also. So that would be leh teh tbeh (slightly more EE in it than eh as in led.
If I may offer a couple more suggestions, there are some places where the nasal resonance should be less obvious or held over. That would be on "There will be an answer", "To the sound of music".
The second BE of the "Let it be" choruses is on a G4. You could sustain a straight G4 without the downward bend sometimes and see how that works for you.
This does sound good overall.
Keep up the good work.
Bob
Thank you again. I think you are spot on with the areas you have pointed out. I want to make sure I am placing the voice right. If I am, now I have to work on vowels / consonants / phrasing to help me even more. Thank you again, you are really a big help!
I really like the Blow-by-Blow description of the techniques!!!
Nice post, thanks @cgreen!
Bob
Cinema,
I still get to the video with the blow-by-blow from your original post. The video itself isn't displayed, but the link takes me right to the video. That was what I saw the first time I saw your posting, as well.
And, I can get you a good deal on designer Michael Jordan running shoes! Seriously, I've been deleting many, many spambots a day and they keep popping up! Nigel has closed the floodgates, but many of them got through and have time-delay activators. I'll be mopping them up for a while.
Custodian to the Spam aisle, with a mop, please!!!
Bob
@xmasboy,
Do you do "You Don't Know Me"? Your tone is reminiscent of Michael Buble' on that tune.
I think you would probably do well on it, if you do.
I'm just sayin'....
Bob
Bob, I haven't sang that yet, but let me take a look at it and see what I can come up with!
@Carlos2679,
Nice demo. You're doing very well for so early in the course. You have a few minor carbuncles here and there, but overall you did a great job. Yes, you will sound even better as you improve your support.
You sing from your heart. That will take you far. Keep working Ken's exercises. You'll keep on growing.
Bob
@Liam,
I know what you mean about slow progress due to work obligations. All you can do is all you can do. I'm in the same boat in many ways. That said, the higher priority you put on your vocal studies, the more you can expect to progress.
Regarding the EE vowel, when you do the slide up on "kneeeeeees" you might want to modify from EE to EA E-eh(as in led). Just morph from Pure EE down low into eh up high.
Ken is a big fan of Sam Cooke. Sam had a lot of soulful sound and wonderful technique.
You did a very good job and sang it with a lot of heart. Good job.
Bob
Hi, John.
It was very enjoyable hearing you sing and play. You have a nice unique style and sound to both your singing and guitar playing.
A few, short bits of friendly feedback to you. Your voice has a bit more air than might be healthy. It sounds very good in the style, but so would a bit more cord closure, which might help towards longevity in your voice. And of course, the ever-present support. There are areas where more support would have made a big difference.
I'm working on support myself, so I'm one to talk, but by my own foibles I can tell you it's something we all need to work at until it's ever-present. Support will carry your voice where nothing else will.
This is a wonderful song. I'm very glad you posted it.
I checked out Starry Eyes on YouTube and enjoyed listening to you on that one as well.
It's Good to hear and see you!
Bob
@johnjohn,
What exactly you should be doing and feeling whilst attempting this difficult task: Patience.
This is a process that will take considerable time, but be well worth the effort and the time invested.
The barrier you speak about, the escarpment of F#4-G#4 is a familiar one. It is followed by the ever-present A4-C5 ridge.
You can't just burst your way through these areas. You have to approach range-extension more gently than you might think. And keep on approaching it. You will have to reduce the girth and the force you are singing with.
Try a lighter version of chest voice instead of trying to push an elephant through a keyhole. Keep gently working at getting into and past these notes without forcing. After a long enough time, your voice will figure out that it really can get through these areas and that they don't have to be a nuclear explosion.
After you can attain the notes in a lighter fashion, you can work on adding some appropriate amount of weight that is sustainable, much like learning to smooth your passagio lightly at first, then stronger as practicable.
Give it time. Lots and lots of time. Don't try to get too far too fast. It will come.
Bob
Hey, marc! Good job tackling a tough song.
As a suggestion, I would recommend that you listen to the WayPoint videos on Vocal Tract shaping and start moving towards keeping your vocal tract open to the dominant vowels, line by line.
Also, your delivery is a little spikey, in that it's broken up into little pieces by consonants.
After watching the vocal tract videos, come back and try to sing this song more legato, or strung together like a string of pearls, rather than a series of spikes. Make your phrases long and linked together with light consonants joining all of the pieces into long, contiguous, continuous phrases.
Be sure to support like there's no tomorrow, especially all of those high notes. You have pretty good pitch. The added support and more legato approach will really help to put more of a shine on your performance. This technique will also allow you to open up and really employ the advantages of Open Throat Singing.
You have a lot going for you. Incorporate these KTVA techniques into your singing and grow that much more!
Bob
Just listened to it. Very nice. I like the timbre he gets from his voice.
Bob
Also on the A5 notes at the end it takes everything I have and in terms of vowel modification am I still trying to target "oo" as in hook with and "aa" mouth for a note as high as that? it just always sounds so squeezed.
This is an interesting song. Yes, you do incorporate all kinds of techniques in this one.
Sounds good, Cinema!
Bob
@marc,
Your link took me to this message:
Sorry! We can't find that sound.
Did you try to access a private sound, but were not logged in?
Maybe the sound has been removed.
Hi, Marc!
I have some of the same comments on this song as I gave on Eye of the Tiger.
You have a strong voice and a pretty good range.
What I notice a lot in both of these demos is again the spikey way the really loud notes shoot up above the level of the rest of the song.
It would be an improvement if you could try to make a more consistent, contiguous flow of sound, vs a less consistent, spikey flow. When you use more real support for the high notes, they will lay more into the track than shoot up above the rest. Support will enable you to sing those high notes more musically without shouting them.
The result will be a more pleasant and polished finished product.
Please don't take this as a put-down. It's intended to give you a leg up!
Bob
marc,
When you got your mojo workin' on your support, you will push down on your guts, and when you do it right, you will notice that instead of blasting loudly, your high notes will be sung, not blasted. Your voice will sound full, but not overfull. Your volume on the supported high notes will be more even with your lower, easier notes. In fact, all of your notes will sound easy, because they will be easier when you support.
The word "support" can make people think you are putting more force into the sound. In fact, you are controlling your volume, keeping it from peaking by reducing the volume with more support each time you would otherwise force more air out to hit a note. When you push down, you reduce the force of the outgoing air.
Put your effort into support rather than tightening your throat muscles or forcing blasts of air out. Instead, work on getting a more consistent flow, powered entirely from your abdominal area with a downward force.
Bob
the spikyness isn't so much to do with the consonant sounds as it is with the tendency to get a bit "shouty" on the higher notes (but overuse of consonant sounds would accentuate it). In that demo of Always you are obviously not articulating nearly enough for an actual performance, but it's often a good idea when exercising.
@marc,
Actually there are a lot of improvements in this consonantless version. You are beginning to get a more consistent flow, which will help with keeping the vocal tract in the open position.
I agree with ragnar in that is still has shouty moments, especially when you are reaching for your high notes. I also agree with ragnar that you are not that far from getting it right.
Consistency in the level will really work wonders on the listenability of your voice and give it a more professional sheen.
Don't worry so much about adding the consonants back in. I think you should try what you did in this version a little more to get the hang of it a bit more. Then add the very least amount possible of consonants. Just a HINT of the consonants, the minimum possible. See how little consonant you can get away with restoring. You'll be surprised at how little consonant it takes to make people THINK you sang it the normal way. Less is more with consonants.
Good job on trying something that seems goofy, but is really a gateway to great singing. This is a big step in the right direction for you.
Bob
@overdriveisclassy,
Your voice IS stronger in the lower register, but then you hit a few C5's in your demo.
The C5's sound like you're not supported and need more confidence, but you ARE hitting them.
So it's off to the woodshed for you! Practice, work those scales, and build your support.
You will need to do a lot of workouts to get your upper range built up to the level that your lower register can currently handle.
Don't beat yourself up for the areas that are lacking strength. Instead, do your workouts, and turn your weaknesses into your strengths! Don't fool yourself. It will take time and a lot of work, but note-by-note, you can build your strength up to the point that this song will become much easier for you.
You may want to practice working out to it in a higher key, up a half-step or two. Then when you drop it back down to the original key, it won't be quite so hard to do.
Do realize that those higher-range passages are going to take a whole lot of support, and I mean a LOT! You should be singing those parts right from your gut, not your throat.
Bob
@marc,
Yes, the realization that you don't have to slam vowels to get to high notes is something that is a little counterintuitive. It's an important milestone to pass.
You ask a lot of questions and you take advice well. One step at a time, you will make big improvements with your voice.
Bob
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Jackamo,
This sounds pretty good, really. Its a little thin when you go into head voice, and your support in head voice needs to be stronger so your voice won't waver. Your chest voice sounds more consistent.
To me, the tone doesn't sound nasal, but you could possibly benefit by watching Ken's video on the Nasopharyngeal Port. You can close off the port and open up the back of the throat more. That can make for a richer-sounding voice.
Bob
Seether - Truth (Cover)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YcLHHT3wKo@overdriveisclassy,
Good job!
You're the guitar player, right? I think you and the drummer should have a secret meeting and vote the bass player out of the band...
Ha ha, just kidding! It sounds good.
I am concerned about the growl at the end. That's what concerned me about some of your other demos, too. Growling can be one of the most destructive things you can do to your vocal cords. You may feel no ill effects currently, but it could take a huge toll over the course of a few years. It would be a shame to damage your voice permanently.
What countermeasures are you employing to protect your voice when you growl?
Bob
@highmtn I've been doing growls ever since I began my singing journey. For whatever reason it seemed to actually help me sing higher. I presume maybe because it activated my support. I don't do them so much anymore, but on occasion like in this song I do. My voice gets tired after a lot of it and I may be hoarse for a bit, but generally I don't feel any ill effects like you mentioned.
Borrowing from @cgreen I wanted to post this link to a Mike Masse youtube clip because he really shows his tongue position in this Boston cover.
I'm curious why his tongue doesn't go up like Ken's does at the high pitches? Regardless, I enjoy watching (and more importantly hearing) both Mike and Ken's youtube songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1jriAJ1KXw
Nice Brad Delp tribute, Hodgepodge.
He does curl the sides of his tongue, but no lizard-tongue.
Bob
@highmtn
Looking forward to learn how to sing with that type of freedom.... and longevity. Its encouraging to learn that we can maintain our range for so long because so many of the rock singers I used to like are not able to sing as well as they used to.
I've been going through some of the webinars, and am really enjoying the content, as well as the postings from some of the KTLV members. Really glad to be part of this community!
@Hodgepodge,
Glad you're here. There's lots to learn and lots to share. Everybody contributes.
Bob
Hey, marc!
Wow. This is really a hard song. You just keep putting up lots of demos, so I know you can take the evaluations.
We've talked before about how some consonants can sound slammed, and really peaky-sounding vocals.
This one is especially tough because of the way the song is written: lots of choppy, rhythmic, consonant-driven words and phrases.
I can hear you trying to de-emphasize the consonants, but in a choppy song like this, it's quite a challenge.
What this song needs, especially at this stage of your development, is to be more legato. That means smooth (if you're not familiar with that term). Again, if you look at the sound file you can see how peaky this song is. This is not the best song to practice getting a smoother delivery. That said, what will improve this performance is more support and to make the words more contiguous and more even.
Again, this is a difficult melody with a very wide range. You did crash and burn a couple of times, but you know that. Most of the song you are right on pitch.
If you really want to tackle this song, I recommend you break it down into sections and spend as much time as necessary to deal with each and every aspect of every section. The parts that are giving you trouble you need to spend even more time with, so you can gather your support for those tough notes and also work on a smoother delivery.
Don't put the sections together until you have worked out each section separately, including your delivery.
You are working really hard and I admire you for that. I know you are anxious to sing the really tough songs and to nail them. Songs like this are going to take some time, and you are going to have to hone your chops to get them down at the level you want to achieve.
That means lots and lots of practice, on each and every detail. Line-by-line. Then you put it together.
Don't set your lesson workouts aside to learn songs. Keep up with your workouts. Listen to your own recordings and take cues from yourself on what parts you should be working on more. Don't beat yourself up. Every note that's not what you want it to be is an opportunity for improvement.
Keep working the program!
Bob
This sounds much more even, consistent, and supported, relaxed and natural.
And your backup singers seem to be inspiring you to do your best.
Bob
marc,
I couldn't get your 21/9/13 demo to play, for whatever reason.
The jar of hearts demo did play for me, however.
It's still sounding rough, but I do hear incremental improvements. You're really working hard to improve, and I'm encouraged by your steadfastness and desire to improve. You are going to have to keep on keeping on... I have a feeling that's your style, you just keep slamming until the wall comes down.
Don't hurt yourself. Realize that this is a process that takes time, and some of it is just allowing your voice to mature over time. That part you can't hurry up. BUT your perseverance WILL pay off for you. I can hear you adding one and then another golden nugget that comes from each time you offer another demo for feedback.
All of that said, you still need to keep working to strengthen your support, make your voice very consistent, avoid singing in a shouty manner, smooth out the peaks in your voice, stay within your present range or spend more time working out the parts that are a stretch for you before you submit for critique, etc...
As you incorporate these suggestions, little-by-little the improvements begin to take root.
Don't give up. Give yourself time. Lots of time. Time working on the improvements and techniques.
Record yourself and listen to yourself on the recordings. Give yourself feedback. Record all of your practicing and critique yourself. Make adjustments. Repeat. Adjust more. Listen. Repeat.
Bob
@Zerathios,
Rockin' tracks. Your voice sounds good, nice tone and consistency. The recording is done very well.
You've gotten a good, professional sound going! I like the ending of City of Golden Lights.
Bob
@marc,
Try a little more support on "I... will love you" at 0:27; "Always" at 0:34 is one of those notes that comes out too hard on the ears. Pull back and use more support there so the note is easier for you to sing and also easier to listen to. See how much taller the waveforms are on Always? That's too much power there. It needs to sound more reserved.
Overall there are a lot of improvements showing up on this track. I am looking for consistency from you. Very controlled, unshouty, beautiful singing, i.e. Bel Canto.
Keep up the good work, and don't stop improving.
Bob
Keep the progress moving along. One improvement at a time is progress.
Bob
@tomasz,
Try to brighten it up some more. Open up, too. It's a little pinched and closed-down. Like marc said, make it more AH. This is a really good first try. You're on a good track. I expect good things from you.
Bob
James Arthur - Impossible (Cover)
@pranav,
Soundcloud sometimes doesn't play nice. I can't hear your Ah Oh Ooh Ah exercise.
Your Exercise 19 is playing and you are doing some good things in that one.
Good things: Nice beginning tone, good support, nice laryngeal tilt in the 3 successive bends on each instance of the scale.
Things to consider working on: Try to keep that nice, bright pingy tone going that you start each scale with. As you ascend, it gets a little more covered each time. Solution: Really open up and smile as you ascend and don't close down the vowel until you get to a place where you need the loft, hook, and Ooh mods.
Good pitch. Again, I don't get to say this enough, so here goes: Good job on the support!
Bob