Demo Area for the Bold - Critical Feedback for the more Experienced

NigelNigel Administrator Posts: 138
Get Constructive Feedback 


  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    Just moving my post over here to the new forum.

    contest song live pat b we belong
    So there was a local contest here last week and I sang We belong. My teacher said this was the right song for me but I was scared. I really liked singing with a band. Sorry for the poor quality as it was recorded outside and there was tons of background noise. I'll let you guess how I did in the contest. Appreciate any feedback. I feel I was pitchy as I always feel that way you know and I htink my timing was off.

  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    Wow dingo! That sounded great!! Lotsa improvement if I can remember your first video correctly :D! Though background noise I can't hear much but I could hear it roughly XD
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    Thanks. I spent 2 months working on that song. Yeah I wish it could have been a better recording but my friend did what they could. It is hard to record outside with people talking and yelling.
  • g0dg0d Enrolled Posts: 7
    edited December 2011
    holy overcompressed! What I can hear sounds good :) OH, it was recorded live, that's why it sounds like a wall of sound :)
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    thanks for the positive feedback. nobody mentioned the timing and pitchiness?

  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    Can't really hear what song it is or actually hear much of the melody but I can hear roughly XD Its really... noisy XD!
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    hmm maybe I can try to fix it? wish I had another recording.
  • andersanders Enrolled Posts: 77
    I think your singing sounded really great and I would be surpprised if you did not win. If you did not win there was in deed stiff competition. I know that the recording was crap but since I am quite used to hear crappy recordings on youtube I can say that your singing came trough as great.
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    yeah I did win it :)

  • andersanders Enrolled Posts: 77
    Better luck next time:-)
    I still think that the recording showed that you have reall potential to be a great vocalist/artist.
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    ha ha yes I did win.

    I want to release an ep next year and am working on the songs.
  • andersanders Enrolled Posts: 77
    I must have been blind when I wrote my last post. Did and didn't there is a great difference;-)
    Good luck with your ep!
  • aronaron Enrolled Posts: 2
    Just signed up and waiting for Ken's "package" to arrive. Thought it might be cool to post a song I wrote and sang BEFORE I started the course. Then repost after getting a ways into the course. I NEVER sang until about 3 months ago. One day just realized that maybe, just maybe I can do this. Never could hold a note to save my life!
    Hope I'm doing this right, never done this "forum" thing before either.
  • aronaron Enrolled Posts: 2
    edited January 2012
    Ok, obviously don't know what I'm doing?! Don't see the song posted? We'll try it this way then...
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    Welcome! And nope the song didn't appear.

    Don't worry. I'm sure everything will turn out great haha! Try uploading your song on box.net or soundcloud. Then copy the share link and paste it here :D!
  • berracahbandberracahband Enrolled Posts: 7

    Didn't know you had a place for this! :)

    One country:   http://youtu.be/7jXmOS4-ceY

    One rock:  http://youtu.be/7kqGqCw3HnU


  • kurzweilkurzweil Enrolled Posts: 27
    Hi there!

    I have used Ken's methods to improve my technique. Here is my new band, called Srofase. From our website you can listen all songs from our debyt-album called 1804. Please check out and leave comments. Thanks!


    -Esa / Srofase
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    This is good stuff!  I like it!!

    Way to go, Esa!


  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43

    Someone suggested I try this song and, on a lark, I did. It turned out better than I expected. There's one spot where I had to wrong intonation and corrected in mid-stride. So, I kept it, warts and all.

    http://dl2.dropbox.com/u/8750209/I Believe in a Think Called Love - R.mp3

    Here's my accidental 70's fm radio sound.

    http://dl2.dropbox.com/u/8750209/over the hills Led Zep.mp3

    Wrong mic placement. I do an A5 that overloads the mic.

    http://dl2.dropbox.com/u/8750209/STH - live.mp3
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330
    edited March 2012


    That song "I Believe in a Thing Called Love" is really funny.  I've never heard it before, but I YouTubed it, and you're actually pretty close, especially for a lark!

    You have a very interesting voice. You certainly have the range and tone... with a little more discipline, you would be dangerous!  I can see what you mean about not having a passagio break in your voice. You artfully shed the weight as you ascend. 

    The fm radio sound seems to be from having the mic up so loud that it's picking up the room noise like the hiss of an FM broadcast.  That's probably why the A4 made my ears bleed ;^)  The mic must still be smoking...

    Then there's the E5 in Stairway... Mercy!  Was that with the Sennheizer? You weren't kidding when you said you have a very loud voice.

    I like the quality of your voice.  Lots of potential, lots of power.   Discipline, my son...   You must learn to control the force! 

    Thanks for posting.  It takes a lot of guts to post vocal demos on a vocalists' forum. 


  • niconico Enrolled Posts: 30
    Hey everyone!

    This is a first for me: uploading a demo. I haven't even really shown my newly acquired, yet modest, vocal skills to anyone since started this program...so here it goes! Please feel free to criticize whatever you think I need improving! I am a big believer in constructive criticism.

    Disclamer: This is a cheap recording - recorded from macbook pro microphone for vox and guitar - from me about 2 or 3 months ago. About the time I really first got into stage 2.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68637752/Heart of Gold take 1 uploadable file 2.mp3

    BTW, probably this afternoon I'll upload another demo to show where I'm at right now. Minus the click track and poor recording, lol!
  • NigelNigel Administrator Posts: 138
    Thanks for posting your demos everyone, this is really cool - they sound great! 

    Like Bob says, it takes a lot of courage to post your stuff here for the world to hear - so, congrats!
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    Nice head voice you got there ronws ;) pretty good demos! If the pitch was better and the lower notes weren't so heady, would've been better! :D

    nico, you have a nice voice there! Though when you sing I think it would sound better if the words were more connected rather than chopped up... you need to sing it with legato :o. Don't over enunciate the consonants as well! Also push down more on the diaphragm on the higher notes :D!
  • niconico Enrolled Posts: 30
    Thanks for your input Rayhan! Much appreciated.

    So here's my take on Born to be Wild by Steppenwolf. It's just my vox track through a sm58 to a fastrack pro. I used Garageband with the 'male basic' effect. So I recorded this just today. I'm about 6 months into the whole program and still on stage 2 until I get a webcam with Ken to ask him if I can move on to stage 3. Anyways, please have a listen and comment! Thanks!

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68637752/Steppenwolf Vocal First.mp3

  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    Wow... Big Improvement over the time you have been practicing. 

    Very brave to put your voice on without the backing music track...  a lot of the demos people put on here it's very hard to hear their voice over the background music or the original artist's voice.  No problem picking your voice out of the mix! ;^)   It would be nice to hear some of the backing musical tracks, though...

    Your voice has grown a lot since the previous demo was made.  Keep practicing.  It's working.


  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Thanks for the compliments, guys. Though I think I am stuck with the voice that I have. I can't sing very low and I have just about no baritonic ring, even on the low notes. Another expert pointed that out to me, when I was scraping the basement to sound as low as Bono on my version of "With or Without You."

    On the Stairway song, that is the studio condenser mic. Fame CM -1. I overload the mic so hard on that high note that you can hear it clipping and I know it's flattening the response because in person, the note was more focused than it sounds. However, I have been learning that I have been placing the mic wrong, all along.

    But here are some songs where I sing as low as I can.

    "Angel in Blue" by the J. Geils Band.

    http://dl2.dropbox.com/u/8750209/Angel in Blue.mp3

    "Brandy" by Looking Glass


    This one uses the Sennheiser. My brother, way more talented than I am, played all the instruments on this, except for drums. For that, he used a drum machine, since he doesn't have a full drum kit at the house and his drummer was busy.

    "Heaven on their Minds" from Jesus Christ, Superstar.

  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    I like the two songs that have working links here.  The Superstar tune is the best you've posted, so far.

    The link to Brandy doesn't get you to the song, just an error code:

    Error (404)

    We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home.
    If it's still available somewhere, I'd like to give that a listen (Brandy).  I still like the character and quality of your voice a lot.
    You're a little pitchy here and there, which I feel you could master to Spot-On perfect pitch with a little discipline.  You seem to have a lot of natural talent.  
    Discipline, my son...  ;^)  You have a lot going for you.  Just needs a little more elbow grease! Kudos!
  • niconico Enrolled Posts: 30
    I also like your voice a good deal. Where I find your voice shines is on the upper range which is very bright, clear yet strong and has no break at all. My favorite part of your demos is the first "jesus" (wow, BTW) and your touches like on the end of phrases like the word "blind" in "...All your followers are blind...".

    One suggestion I would give is to watch out to not exagerate the vowel modifications like in the line: "...Have you forgotten how put down we are...". I say that only because only on some lines I find you have a hard time nailing the proper melody or vocal run or whatever is the right term is...LOL! and I think the reason is that you switch too hard or fast from one vowel modification to another. I hope I'm making myself clear enough.

    Great work!
  • eternal_maneternal_man Member Posts: 22
    hey guys,

    i just thought I'd put up a demo of one of my band's songs just to hear some constructive criticism from u guys haha, here's the link:

    the song is called wolf's lair/wolf slayer and is about the assassination attempt on Hitler in his bunker known as the  "Wolf's Lair". Its thrash metal and I know its not everyone's cup of tea, but if you give it a listen, feel free to speak whats on ur mind :)
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    My bad. I am in the process of changing file sharing service. And I already had this song moved. Once again,
    "Brandy" by Looking Glass. circa 1972.

    I dedicate this to my first step-father, Gerald French, US Navy, Boiler Tech 2c, USS Ogden. And to my friend Lee Blake, US Navy SEAL, 1964 - 1969, Da Nang, Viet Nam.

    I remember, as a kid, singing along with the song and visiting the shipyards.

  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    Thanks for giving us a fix for the link to Brandy.

    You DO seem to have some baratonic ring in this tune.  Again, I must say I like the qualities of your voice.  I do see an opportunity for some improvement with regard to timing and being in maybe a little better sync with the backing tracks.  You can fix that after the fact with most audio editing software.  I'm a drummer.  Things like that make me crazy ;^)

    The greatest opportunity for timing improvement is in the beginning verse.  You tighten your rhythm up a little as the song progresses.  Your altoic ring in the bridge is my favorite part.  You bring it all home at the turnaround of the bridge back into the last verse through to the hooks at the end.


  • BluedevilsBluedevils Enrolled Posts: 7

    With great courage I am posting my Youtube video (Separate Ways).
    Sorry for my poor pronunciation :)

    - was a-few-times-a-year Karaoke singer started KTVA 10 months ago at the age 47, with absolutely NO prior vocal training
    - had never sung in front of more than 7-8 people, but made the-first-in-my-life live performance debut this Feb for 150 audiences
    - had NO rock singing experience before KTVA

    I just wanted to thank Ken for the great training course!
  • matthewmatthew Enrolled Posts: 4
    edited March 2012
    Hey everyone from Northern Ireland,

    just joined the academy about 2 months ago.  great course. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rana8M9k0uw  the song on there is a song i recorded with my old band.  I love singing all genres.  have to get a listen to my classmates ;) feel free to say ho as i wanna  chat to you guys :)    Please note I posted a different link because the firts one i had in this post did not work I'm told.
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Thanks High Mountain. "Brandy" is an old recording. I use Audacity and it has timing issues and this was before I figured out what to do about that. What you hear as a baritonic ring is not actually in my voice. For the low parts, mainly the verses, I am right up on the mic, essentially speaking the lines, almost conversationally. Only the choruses really involved singing. And I used some eq and on the track, post-recording.

    I sing that song in public, a lot. I don't sound quite that weighty in public. But the eq and echo added "beef" to my voice in the bottom end, otherwise, it would have sounded like I was whispering. I have a few other songs where the lack of baritonic ring can be detected because the mix was different. The only way I could presence on some of the lowest notes is to nearly swallow the mic on low notes of low volume and then scoot way back on the stratospheric notes.

    One more song and then I'll quit posting so much. I', just so glad to have your fresh appraisals, they mean a lot to me.

    This is "Land Down Under" by Men at Work. I used some echo, mainly to bolster the guitar and give it a calypso feel. No special eq to boost the low end, or high end. About as even acoustically as I could make it. My lowest notes sound like I am whispering.


    Anyway, I appreciate very much what you think about it, I just think you should know some of the recording details, because they affect what any of us can hear. As many others would say, it's even better for us if we can get with a coach that hears us in person.

    But you guys are so nice here, it's hard to not share what we do, looking for pointers.
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    And I think you have been correct in your assessments in that I have been pitchy at times. I listen back and find it is usually a matter of intonation. Essentially not having quite the right formant and so the right overtones get filtered out, rather than reinforced. As you will notice, my timing is better on the acoustic stuff. Those are recorded "live." I am playing the guitar and singing at the same time. I just click on "record" and let fly. I like to call them my campfire sessions. For these are songs I have performed at a campfire with people. Either I brought a guitar or borrowed someone else's. On some of these, I may add a second track of improvised guitar solo to fill the break or bridge.

    BlueDevil - I really liked your version of "Separate Ways." Great pitch, and you sang the song your way, which is as it should be. And the karaoke backing track I really liked. It has a more "metal" flavor to it than the original studio release. You sound amazing for having studied such a short time. Certainly a testament to both the program and your dedicated work ethic.
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Matt, got a "page could not be found" error message
  • BluedevilsBluedevils Enrolled Posts: 7
    Hi ronws,

    Thank you for your comment but please also give full credit to my friends - it's a live performance not Karaoke.
    They are my old-time high school friends and they are all quite amateur except the lead guitar (he is a semi-professional).
    Most of them hadn't played for more than 25 years and we re-united just a  year ago.
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    @Bluedevils I like that cover of Seperate Ways ;) Backing Vocals were pretty good too! Same goes for the band and the rendition of the song ;D! One problem that occurs to me is the way you and the backing vocals guy keep swaying. It's okay and better than standing still but it just seems kinda weird to me :P Could be improved by watching other people perform live and paying attention to their stage presence! 

    As for your voice, I think it's pretty good! I have no comments on that XD! All it needs is fine tuning ;) Oh and pronunciation.

    I assume you're Japanese since the youtube description is in Japanese and the back wall says Shibuya XD. 

    @ronws I really liked that Heaven on their Minds song cover. ;o It is a bit pitchy too but yeah other than that it's pretty cool :D!

    @matthew and @eternal_man Those links seem broken x_x

    @nico, You seem to have improved throughout the few months! XD Though I think you need to try and balance your nasality. It sounds like you are singing without ANY nasality at all. It could be because we're from different parts of the world but yeah. Would be better if there was more nasality quality to your singing! Oh and pitch is also a problem worth noting ;)!
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    Bluedevils - Very good band, great sound for a live performance!  Mix-wise, I would have liked to have heard your lead vocals a little more, the backing vocals and music covered you up a little too much.  That said, your pitch is right on the money, and you are singing with power.  From your statement that you went in 10 months from untrained karaoke singer and then started KTVA, I expect that you have most likely improved over that ten months, and if you continue to do the exercises, your voice and range will continue to grow and strengthen far beyond your present abilities.  That means we have a lot to look forward to from you in the future! 

    I hope that your band stays together, and that this was not just a one-time reunion. You're very good.  The lead guitar solo was just Blistering!



  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    eternal_man,  I tried to listen to your clip, but putlocker wouldn't let me in, and kept redirecting my computer to "hot chicks" kinds of sites.  Not exactly what I was expecting.  See if you can get that fixed, and we would be happy to take a listen.  Just don't need all those "hot babes" (named fred) wanting to webcam, hacking into my computer.



  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    hey guys and @highmtn i'm sry the link wasn't workin out, i never got redirected to any hot babes hahaha

    here's a new one since i noticed most of u guys use dropbox: https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Midhowl/wolfslayer4.mp3?w=bc32cfe7
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330
    @raven1lk  ...Nope...  Just get this on the new link...

    Error (403)

    It seems you don't belong here! You should probably sign in. Check out ourHelp Center and forums for help, or head back to home.
  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    hey highmtn, thanks for trying again, hopefully this one works: http://db.tt/z2GqL8ZU
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    I tried downloading dropbox and opening an account with them.  Still can't seem to get to your files.  It may be ME that is the problem, and not anything you've done.  One of the easiest sites people here seem to be using is soundcloud.  I think that's where I would post.

    Sorry if the problem is me. 


  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    No problem Bob, I jus opened an account on soundcloud, since most of my friends have been pestering me to do it for a while, anyways here's a soundcloud link: http://snd.sc/GLr9zf , I really feel like i'm spamming this forum haha

  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    I think Dropbox, in general, is having problems and that is why I am switching to box.com, which is why my dropbox link for Brandy didn't work, because I had already moved it to box and forget to use the correct link.

    BlueDevil. My apologies for not acknowledging your band. That bit of historical data was not included in your previous post that included the link.

    And kokonuhtz, you are right, I end "Heaven on their Minds" a bit sharp. The ending still bugs me in that recording but I liked the rest. I live in Texas, my brother lives in Maine. He recorded the bed track and sent it via email. I recorded the vocal track and emailed it back. And he mixed it. He has a home studio. Not bad, considering. It could have been better if I could have travelled to Maine and recorded directly in his studio, bringing along my e835, of course.
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    rayven, way cool tone. Good pitch accuracy, excellent attitude. Why aren't you already on tour? Seriously.

    I have become more attuned to the modern metal like this. I am an old guy. Let me put it this way. My wife sometimes thinks I sound like David Byron, the original singer for Uriah Heep. And I am old enough to know who she is talking about. Anyway, I am friends with a band called Drop Head, in New York. In fact, it is their singer who mixed "I Believe in a thing called Love" for me.

    And Drop Head is also very hard, though with a more melodic tinge, since the singer also likes bands like Sonata Arctica and Helloween and sometimes even he sounds like Geoff Tate. But I digress.

    Well done, rayven, and I say that as a member of the music-buying public. Record your own stuff, do your own distribution on itunes, where I can buy it to put in my ipod. Seriously.

    And don't worry about feeling like a spammer. I've already linked half a dozen to your one? I would be more guilty of showcasing than you are.

    Peace, and be good, and be good to yourself. And start recording and releasing, even as you seek instruction to improve, which ain't no sin. James Hetfield actually got lessons AFTER Metallica became big, in order to save and conserve his voice.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    rayven, yes, I agree with ronws, you are da man!  You guys need to pick up the tempo a little bit, though...;^) just kidding... very energetic! Thanks for getting this posted on a link that works.  It was worth the wait. 

    Your band kicks arse, and your vocals are just right in my opinion.  I would ask if your voice is lasting without going hoarse, because you have a lot of grit in your vocal sound...  So you must be doing it right if that's not killing your vocal cords.  Good intonation, good distortion, lots of energy... good recording...

    I don't think anyone is posting too much on this thread.  This is just starting to get interesting with all of the samples going up for comment.  That's what we're all here for.  To listen, to learn, to coach, to encourage, and to ask for or give help or opinions.

    Keep it coming. 


  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    ronws, I just listened to your link of Land Down Under. 

    I liked the first verse.  I think it sounded quite good.  You don't give your low end enough credit! 

    You excel, of course, when you go to your higher range, as your "Power Band" is in this upper midrange that most of us struggle to achieve...

    I like this tune the most of what you've posted so far.  Your intonation is consistent, as well as the vocal timing, where that has been something that has needed attention on your previous posts.  As I've said all along, I like your voice a lot, and this one is getting much closer to the more perfected product that I think you are quite capable of.

    To this post I must say BRAVO!!!!


  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    @rayven1lk, It sounds pretty awesome though I'm not really into that kind of music so I can't give much feedback on that haha! Though I would like to address the same questions as Bob, how is your voice after performing like that? Also, was the audio editted in any way? Like added effects or something? or is it purely original o_o!

    I would like to post a cover but I hardly have time for myself now x_X" maybe in the near future... :( but when college starts... it's getting busier... urgh..... x__X"

  • BluedevilsBluedevils Enrolled Posts: 7
    Folks thank you very much for your warm comments.
    My friends also wanted to give their best regards to you.
    I am pretty much encouraged and will keep practicing hard!
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Thanks, highmtn. I don't eschew having some low notes. I have been told by an expert with a much bigger range than I have (he can sing lyric bass up to leggiero tenor) that I don't have much ring in my low notes, notes that would normally be in the middle or sweet spot of baritone. Then, again, he mostly works with youths in choral and choir competitions and maybe using classical sound ideal. Which is not what I am thinking when I do "Land Down Under." Then, I am thinking of Colin Hayes, standing in the Outback, looking cross-eyed at the camera.

    I will still do "Land Down Under" because it is one of my faves to do. I just have to do like I did for the recording and get on the mic for the low notes at low volume, otherwise you won't hear it. Like you said, the "power band" area of my voice (like the power band of a motorcycle's engine response) not a problem and actually, my voice is top heavy, the higher I go, the louder I get, because the more I focus resonance.

    Though I have not been officially typed by anyone, I think I am a lyric tenor.

    Let me link just one more song. This is the one that the choral trainer (who is also an authority on the voice) said I lacked ring and power in the low end. Again, this a campfire songk, one that I have played at a campfire, or at a party. I recorded myself playing guitar and singing at the same time, which is my comfort zone. It's what I have done for a long time.

  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Further thoughts on my weak low end and the judgement that I have no ring or power in the low end. I am on another singer's forum. And I am not "officially" linked with any singing instruction system. I have no horse to back. To borrow from golf, I have no "skin in the game." I am not a voice professional anything. I am not even paid to sing. I am, by profession, an electrician, though I now am operations and office manager for an electrical subcontractor company. And that takes all day. I am at the office by 6 am and rarely get out of there before 4 pm.

    So, I wonder sometimes, if I received such a judgement because I was an "unknown quantity" at the time. The funny thing is, the one that pronounced me as having a lack of ring in the low end only lives about 40 miles from me, kind of on the path I take to work and back. But I can never see him. For one thing, I am not a grade school or high school student in UIL competition, which is primarily where his work is. So, he really doesn't have the time to listen to an aging hippie like me.

    Was I "mis-diagnosed"? Possibly. Am I subjected to forum politics? Usually. Do I think I know everything? Absolutely not.

    I tend to follow the classical technique, especially for a tenor. That is, the power and ring is above C3 or E3 and the power band, as it were, is in the primary passaggio and up. So, my low end is quieter. And I tend to view range as where one has the the greatest dynamic control of volume, tone, and pitch.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    Thanks for posting your latest demo.  You  do a decent job on that song.  In my opinion you beat yourself up a little too much for the quality of your voice in your lower registers.  I must agree that you excel more when you get more up into the tenor notes, but then you ARE a tenor, so that's to be expected.

    I believe that I am most likely a dramatic tenor, so that puts me just a half-step flat of where you are.  I do, however, have a reasonable low end, which can be emphasized by low larynx, extended lips, breath control, and placement (not to mention practice). 

    It would probably be more difficult for me to sing low if a vocal authority had told me that I had no baritonic ring, especially if they had said it flippantly.  I was once nearly voted out of a church musical vocal group for having too "reedy-sounding" of a voice.  This is the very sound that Ken Tamplin uses in his "It's the LAW" demo. Not long after the church nearly voted me out, I was hired as a singing drummer by a local band and I've sung professionally two or three nights a week for almost five years now.

    Different strokes for different folks.  I just think that we ALL should be on a path, our own path, for self-improvement and self-fulfillment, from where we are now to where we want to be. 

    I hear many good qualities in your voice, and I hear much wisdom in your technical expertise on vocal terminology. I've heard very few posters here, other than yourself, making references to formants, vocal fachs, classical vocal references...  I like your technical perspective.

    I'm probably the same age as you, if not older, and I work a similar industrial supervisory job that tries to suck the life out of me...  but singing breathes life INTO me.

    So are you working out with vocal exercises to build up the areas you feel weak in?  I'm wondering if you may be a good vocalist that sings but does not "work out" actively?  The only reason I say that is because you have made a comment or two about being where you are, as if there is no expectation of improvement for you... maybe because you're too old?  I have to tell you, I'm "old", I work out a lot, and I'm on a steady roll of improvement. 

    The plateaus for us all sometimes seem endless, but then boom, you find yourself turning a corner when you continue to strive.  It's like watching a clock.  It seems like it's not moving, but if you quit staring at it, when you come back it has moved.

    With your level of talent, I am certain that if you are working out regularly, your areas of weakness will strengthen. Even us old guys can learn new tricks.  Yes, I was around when Uriah Heep was new stuff.  Some aging hippies are singing in rock and roll bands, and some are singing around campfires.  Whatever makes you happy. It's all good.

    For me, singing is in my heart. It makes me happy.  It makes me even happier when I find myself growing vocally.

    Keep posting, keep singing, keep practicing whatever makes you stronger, and keep growing vocally.

    My best to you, ronws.


  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330
    edited March 2012
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Thanks for the assessment, highmtn. You fairly hit the nail on the head.

    I was born March 19, 1964. Yes, I just had a birthday and am now 48. And I have Uriah Heep's greatest hits, live. I usually giggle when David talks about getting some gum stuck on his boot, left by some carless person. "And here's a bit of a rock and roller, for those of you who want to rock and roll. It's called Sweet Lorraine...."

    I have sang all of my life. I started teaching myself guitar in October of 1974. I had picked up my grandparents' classical guitar, which they kept around more to look at than to play. And started picking out the arpeggiated chord to "Who'll Stop the Rain?" by Creedence Clearwater Revival. We moved to Texas that month. My mom got me an old student guitar and Mel Bay's book of Chords, it was all she could afford. I started developing strength in the upper end of my range around 1988 with a book by Graham Hewitt called "How to Sing." He came from the same classical background as Lilli Lehmann, who had a book by the same title, but he was geared more toward pop music. My first wife, Deidre, was a classically trained pianist and when I first learned how to do the upper notes more connected than falsetto, I had no control over the volume. She said, and I quote, "You could sing in the Cotton Bowl, without a pa." The Cotton Bowl is a concrete, open-air football stadium at Dallas Fair Park in Dallas, Texas.

    But I still had problems in my passagio until the last few years, where further, more in depth study has helped me get through that. And it may have seemed quick for me for two reasons. A) being a light tenor, wherein transitions are not as apparent. B) I have been singing a long time and went through the basics that others are now going through.

    To answer your question, directly, no, I do not practice scales. I do practice tri-tones in different parts of the range. More often, I practice how I change resonance, primarily through movement of the soft palate and the larynx. Other than that, I don't give the larynx much thought. If I am managing my breath and resonating in the right spot, the volume is way more than enough and the larynx doesn't move too much. In fact, the less thought I spend on the throat, the better, because that is what was hindering me before. Images for what the folds and/or the larynx was doing, bringing undue tension and strain to it. My shortened mantra is "follow the resonance."

    The reason I concentrate on the basics like breath and resonance is because it doesn't matter how many scales you sing, it's how you sing them. And learning where to place the note is so important.

    What attracts me to this forum is two-fold. The personalit of Ken. He really is a singer and I enjoy his example songs because he feels them, even as he is illustrating some technique. He's not just a coach, he's a singer. Second, one of my other favorite singers is a student of his, at least by distance and means of the program, rather than in-person lessons. A guy I know as Geno but his name is Gene. A fellow countryman but located quite a bit north of me. The awesome ability of his voice is testament to the work he constantly speaks of in the KTVA program.

    I am always learning something new. Yes, I know about the singer technology and probably have over 2 dozen books on singing, many of them classical technique.

    I've heard people describe KTVA as a bridge late technique but I think that is painting with a broad stroke. For the instruction, as I can see it is, to lighten as you go, where you need to. Which, to me, is reminiscent of my "follow the resonance" thing. That is, there is not as much concentration on what the larynx is doing as there is on what the note sounds like. How much ring is in the note. Follow the note.

    I've had a few others admire the tonal quality in my lower end. If you ask me how I sound when speaking, it is very much like the low volume low note stuff in "Brandy." When I hear myself on the answering machine, that is what it sounds like.

    What I call my full volume range without amplifcation over instruments is from E3 to Bb5, though I can reach C6 if I stay relaxed and let the note happen, rather than "trying to make it happen." With an intentionally dropped larynx and using all my resonator space, I can go as low as C3. Anything below that is weak in volume and resonance and that is not self-deprecation, it's a fact. At G2, I am barely able to fry and F#2, my folds have opened and are no longer creating a tone, it is rather a gutteral sound. So, I only have 2.75 octaves but I try to make that range work for me and fortunately, most of the songs I want to sing are within that range.

    I am an old-ish dog that is learning new things about my voice all the time. Including the fact that I need not worry about how much ring I have in the middle of another's baritone range. Accept the range I have and work it to the best of my ability. This gets me called lazy.

    Some of my other exercises include light descending sirens. Other times, I start with a song that is light yet connected and transition to something with a little more bite. For example, I will start with "Ave, Maria" and let it morph into "Black Dog" by Led Zeppelin. Both sacred and profane, from either direction, I suppose.

    But I am not here to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. I am here because I enjoy fresh perspective. And it's why I go to singers' forums, in general. I get applause from friends and family. I get applause from the general public. Other singers, however, has been the "toughest room," so far.

    And I have a passion for singing. I may not ever become the big rock star, though that may be easier in the digital age. I can't deal with the travel involved and I have responsibilities. If I was 20 with no home, sure. But I am 48 with property taxes and a grandchild.

    But that doesn't stop me from dreaming and pursuing my passion of singing, even if others consider it a hobby. Who knows, maybe I could get with a local theater group or church who needs someone to take the lead role in Jesus Christ, Superstar.


    It seems I have written such a long post and I apologize but your comments and questions inspired me to answer.
  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    hey guys, first of all thanks for the kind words and encouragement

    @ronws, thank you sooo much for reminding me of Uriah Heep sir, my dad used to play 'em all the time and I eventually forgot about them till now, so don't worry ur not that old :P My band is from New York too, we're based in Stony Brook, Long Island, our name is MidhowL. As for recording our stuff, this is one song from a 4-song demo we're planning to release soon and I would be glad to share it with you guys when its released. Our other songs have more melody, but I thought we should have a song we could go balls-out on haha

    @bob, we recorded this at 210 haha, as for the grit you're asking about, when I actually started singing for a band about a year ago, I was pretty horrible (which doesn't mean I'm a master now haha). My sound would get stuck in my throat and it was hard to even reach an E4 of F4 and I pretty much was forced to sing an octave below most of the time. And compounded on that problem, the way I was creating that kind of grit was really wrong...I was pretty much using my throat and when I was done singing several songs during my practice session, my voice would go pretty hoarse and being ignorant I just thought that probably happens to all those guys. It was a gig where everyone was telling the drummer to get a new vocalist that kinda snapped me into the mentality of actually following a singing course and improving myself. Even now I admit I still have my old habits, but that grit is not coming from the throat as much as before and I've never been hoarse like when I first started, although when doing this actual recording, a small area around my soft pallete seemed to be sore which had never happened to me before, I suspect this is because I had the headphones in with the music playing really loud and as a result I must have been singing much louder than I should have and passed too much air between the cords. (I'm on volume 2 right now, so I haven't been following glottal compression just yet)

  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    @kokonuhtz, check out what I said to Bob, to add a little more after singing like that, like Ken says, u gotta come back and clean the sound a bit which really helps, but if I was doing this live I might sound cleaner because I play guitar and sing at the same time.

    The effects you're asking about are pretty straightforward, I did 2 vocal tracks which is why you might hear 2 voices at times, there was a little reverb added to it which was barely noticeable, some distortion (which I'm not crazy about, coz it sounded better to me raw in my opinion), eq and i added a harmony at the choruses just to thicken it up a bit.

    My main problem is that I'm not able to access the passagio as much as I'd like to with the chestiness just yet. The highest note in that recording is a G#4 (at the end with the echo) if I'm right, which I was never able to hit before starting Ken's course, so it is definitely helping. I do enjoy singing clean stuff too, so when I get my mic back, I might upload something completely different haha
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Rayven, I'm not as into vocal distortion as some, though I did try at one time, the false fold thingy, before I learned a valuable lesson in anatomy. And I had injured myself twice, because I don't think I know everything. Anyway, the only distortion I will use, sparingly, is a rattle I can get with my uvula. Otherwise, I sing clean. And before anyone says that a clean voice doesn't have a place in rock music, first explain why Rik Emmett of Triumph was such a success. Always start clean and detune from there, I feel.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    Keep talking....


  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    ronws, when u discuss the false fold thing, are you talking about that lamb of god kinda voice? and clean vocals will always have a place in rock music, thats without a doubt, after I warm up, I always do about 3-4 clean songs to kinda settle my voice and then start applying distortion till I feel ready to go all out. its really upto the singer as person to decide what kinda voice he'd like to use, if he can't get distorted there's nothing wrong with that if he's doing his thing. Since you're into modern tunes too, I highly recommend checking out this band called Kyng, they're kind of metal but with a really rock n roll vibe which is pretty cool
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Bob, I know a Bob from the other forum. Nah, can't be ... Maybe .... hmmm.

    I am just so totally into singing and I am always a cheerleader for others. It takes guts, literally and figuratively, to offer your voice to others. We are at our most vulnerable because, as singers, we are the instruments. I can't run out to Guitar Center and get another set of vocal folds. These are the ones that I have. I can't go out and get a Marshall stack and get something newer than my 20-something year old Roland GS-6 digital effects unit for my Hondo Flying V for my voice.

    Music has been me "escape" for decades. And it is my place to "go" after work. Totally gets my head out that "work" thing. I hear others talk about what "work" singing is and it doesn't feel like it to me. It's work that I could do all day, if I could get paid for it. The high note you noted in my cover of "Stairway to Heaven"? That is where I am free. All that exists is that note. It is very "zen."

    I tried out for bands in the late 80's and early 90's. Even though I can sing everything in the Led Zeppelin catalog, I don't sound like Robert Plant, even though that music is my comfort zone. And bands back then were looking for someone who sounded like Robert Plant or David Coverdale. Or someone that had recording equipment of pa equipment. I had none of that. Just a blues and jazz feel and an E5 that would peel paint off the wall. One band I auditioned for passed me over to take on another singer. Even then, I was a better singer than he was, which is not saying much, so I am not really bragging. But he had recording equipment, which made him the better candidate, to them.

    But who, today, needs a singer that has a better time with "July Morning" rather than "Enter the Sandman"? Who needs a singer that can do "The Immigrant Song" by Led Zeppelin but doesn't have the dramatic baritone quality for "Full Moon" by Sonata Arctica?

    I promise I won't link in my cover of the Immigrant Song.

    Time has passed me by but I am too stubborn to quit. I''l keep on singing, one way or another. I should just write my own songs and release them on itunes. My friends, the band Drop Head, have done so. The singer, who mixes my sutff for me is also a law student. So, he's got a lot going for him and I learn a lot from him, even though he is at least 8 years my junior. About the only thing I know how to do is sing high and loud, which is usually enough to please me.


  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    The false fold thing is about how to create a rattle.

    Now, here's the anatomy of the false vocal folds (FVF). They are a membrane located just above the true vocal folds. What they do is release mucus to coat the true folds from the outside while systemic hydration from drinking nominal amounts of water keep the water level in the blood at a good level to lubricate from the inside out. As you swallow, the FVF close over the true folds to prevent liquid and food intrusion while eating. As you approach swallowing or raise the larynx too high (nearly the same action,) the ventricle formed by the FVF position about the true folds disappears, severly hampering if not erasing the first formant, which is where a tone created by the true folds gets its initial resonance before it is floated up to the mouth or lower sinus for resonance at a volume that can be heard. Essentially, trying to "engage" the FVF is trying to sing while swallowing.

    Which is what I tried to do, as I had read others describing what they thought of FVF distortion. And thereby strained muscles in my throat and created swelling in the folds. And was left with a scratchy bottom end, a whistlely high that would break of its own accord, and nothing in between. Twice, because I am an idiot.

    Went back to classical technique, after at least two weeks of rest each time. And resolved that I didn't need distortion that bad, even though others told me "you're not doing enough with your voice." So, now, I am Lazy Ron but at least my voice still works and I don't have any nodes.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330

    Sorry about the multiple copies of the one post from me above...  The forum just locked up when I clicked on "Post Comment" and stayed frozen until I rebooted my computer.  Now there doesn't seem to be a "delete post" function available anymore, so I can't clean up the mess.  My "whew" post was an attempt to delete a double post.  I edited out all of the text and replaced it with "whew".  That cut it down to a single post. 

    I came back later tonight, to find four more copies of the original post.  Not sure what that's about, but it would be nice if I could just access a delete post function, and make the duplicates go away...


  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    This is all great information! I feel like I'm really learning a lot here! :D Though somehow I have nothing to comment back -___-". Oh and Bob, I cleaned the mess for ya ;).

    Also, is the FVF distortion the one that gives the voice a kind of gritty sound?
  • rayven1lkrayven1lk Member Posts: 31
    better lazy ron than silent ron hahaha...but i've heard the term fry screaming and inward screaming being thrown around, but I've never really attempted the technique myself.

    @kokonuhtz i maybe wrong, ron might know better, but i think a singer who uses FVF distortion is Randy Blythe from Lamb of God...i never really appreciated those kinda vocals before, but ever since doing vocal training I can appreciate how difficult it is to get that sound and respect the dude for going balls out with it

    I've also noticed just today that I was accessing distortion somewhere else...I was actually singing Redneck by Lamb of God and usually when I'm applying distortion, the sound is kinda focused towards the front of my mouth which I feel restricts my range with the throat feeling closed and then I need to reach up to get the notes. This is obviously a wrong technique coz its not doing the job, but today's difference was that while trying distortion I somehow managed to keep a more open throat and the sound felt more like it came right from this imaginary film that coated the opening of the throat...i kno it sounds like a strange way of describing it, hope it makes some sense to u guys
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    I don't know that the FVF can be consciously engaged only partially. I think some people are just genetically predisposed to have looser tissue there and it occurs naturally for them. One singer that, whether he uses it or not, sounds like FVF distortion, is Chad Kroeger from Nickelback.
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    One distortion I found I could do I thought was related to "overlay distortion" from another system. A rattle at the uvula. You can hear it on my cover of "I Believe in a Thing Called Love" on the high notes, including the strat notes for the word "Guitar!" Then someone who doesn't even use that system tells my that is FVF. My though was really? So, my FVF are at the uvula, where I actually feel the vibration of the rattle? So, I give up discussing it. The other guy has been singing 7 whole years. He might just know more than I do.
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    I suppose you should create a seperate thread about FVF distortion and discuss it there :P! Maybe Ken will shine some light too!
  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    That's a good idea, Kokonuhtz. I didn't mean to derail this thread. And I think there is already another thread on distortion, though I think it is from the KTVA distortion. I don't spend a lot of time on distortion, which may not be very "rock and roll." And one venture into something that wasn't right for me taught me a harsh lesson. But others' mileage may vary.
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    It's always good to play safe ;)! I'm not that much of a Rock singer but more of a RnB / Pop singer :D! I like the effect of distortion and I'd love to learn it but I don't mind being slow and patient with it. Heck I don't even pay much attention to it for now. XD
  • Ken TamplinKen Tamplin Administrator, Moderator Posts: 445
    @ highmtn and Kokohnut. Thank you for being there for people to help answer questions. Your input is appreciated
  • Ken TamplinKen Tamplin Administrator, Moderator Posts: 445


    Decent job.

    First off (no offense) but even Bono's lo end is really tentative. It almost always sounds like he is a donky on the edge of pitch and control.

    It's actually his passion and conviction that sells his voice.

    You can clearly hear you "pinching" as you start to go up in your mid register.

    Try to relax and open the throat even more.

    Also: You can hear the larynx raise mid way through the chorus. especially on the word "you".

    Try singing the whole chorus with open throat all vowel phrases first and then integrate other "mdified" vowel sounds so you can maintain open throat phrases. This will help you.

    Also, 3/4's of the way into the chorus you can hear you support starting to fatigue and I can almost see your digastric muscle come down as you are negotiating the words.

    If necessary, break this whole thing down first a line at a time so you don't build bad habits.

    This will help you when you build the stamina to sing choruses like this over time.



  • ronwsronws Member Posts: 43
    Thank you so much, Ken, for responding. What an excellent analysis. I might be closing the vowels and not realizing it when I do it. In fact, I think that is what the "fatigued" sound is in some of the higher notes. Closing vowels. An open throat would have brought in a little more oscuro sound that would help. Bono does it very well, even though that is the top of his range.
  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    I think it's just amazing how Ken can listen to one's voice and break it down and hear all the individual minor mistakes that we make that actually play a HUGE part on how we sound ;D! 

  • CodaCoda Member Posts: 20
    @Kokonuhtz : Isn't that the whole point though of being a vocal coach? It's impressive, but it's a requirement.(for reputable ones anyway)
    @Ronws:  Yes, you are closing down, and the open throat technique that I've gathered from Ken's youtube videos and reading stuff on this forum, is essential to eliminating (or managing) that sensation and effect.
    I could imagine it would also give your tone color and proper pitch, to match your high range.

  • matthewmatthew Enrolled Posts: 4
    I fixed my link.  if you go to
    you should be abe to hear me sing with my former band- rapunzel.
  • QueryenQueryen Member Posts: 2
    edited May 2012
    OK, this was made like 2 - 3 years ago and it's me singing M. Jacksons THE WAY YOU MAKE ME FEEL in somewhat rock acappella version...and yea, I  am not native english speaking person so do not laugh too much about my acccent, speaking and staff if you can, pleaseee... :-))))


    As I have dificult times dealing with some parts which notes was too high
    for my my natural reach (like Bb5/H5 although it is in H5 anyway :D),
    but was alsoo too low for using the technique (using techniq in such a
    "low heights" sounds like bad unprofessional falzetto :D ... I developed
    two new lines: ONE UNDER original and ONE ABOVE and didn't included the
    original so the song got some new feeling to it a bit in some parts + I added my own parts to it cos I didnt want to make another MJ
    cover cos I think it is ridiculous to try sound like someone else, instead I did it with a different approach, hope you
    understand what I mean)

  • wvwv Enrolled Posts: 36
    edited June 2012
    Hi everyone,

    I am just new to this forum and the lessons as well. Although I purchased the lessons a year ago, I have not really done it on a consistent basis. I am still on level 1 but I am going to start to do the training extensively once I get rid of my throat problems. Plus, I think I have to do a on-line lesson with Ken to help me with hearing the notes as I sing so it would be easier for me to do the exercises for the courses. I have been singing since I was a child but not on professional level.

    Anyway, here's an acapella of California King Bed by Rihanna (but I tried to sing in ahmir's version key). Feel free to comment.

  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    Hey Wv,

    I like the sound of your voice, nice tone.  I think if you keep up with the system, and work it consistently, you will strengthen up the upper mid section of your voice.  Very cool R&B tone for sure.  I think if you really dig in with the workouts, you will see tremendous imrovements.  You already have a grasp on tone, with the program the range and endurance will come.  good work.
  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    go over the videos from volume 1, and get to work on the exercises. I think you have great potential
  • wvwv Enrolled Posts: 36
    Thanks sspatrick. Once I get better, I sure will.

    Actually I am not into R&B, I am more into rock. I just happen to really love this song. But thanks again!
  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    R&B was not a dis.  I really liked the tone of your voice, and it suited the song.  The rock stuff will come once you progress through the systems.
  • wvwv Enrolled Posts: 36
    I didn't take it as a "dis". It's just that I was very flattered. Sorry, if it kind of made a wrong impression.
  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    no worries.  Keep on rockin and your voice will grow beyond your expectations.
  • TBooTBoo Member Posts: 3
    edited June 2012

    I'm 45 and don't really sing, but I've always wanted to be able to sing just for my own personal satisfaction.  Got the program on May 13th and started practicing in my car to and from work (only time I have right now) started to notice a difference so I downloaded "Faithfully" sound track and recorded a little bit on June 4th (up thru "along the wire"). Kept practicing in the car, then things seemed to start getting easier so I recorded another section of the song on June 22nd using the same USB mic on my computer, but I held a paper towel in front of the mic to cut down on the "pop".

    I plan to keep recording new parts of the song every few weeks as I progress so that hopefully I can hit the high parts at the end of the song when I'm done.  When I'm finished, I'll hopefully be able to hear steady progress as I play through the entire song.

    Still a long way to go, but I'm excited to continue on with the program


  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    You're sounding really good for trying to sing for being just six weeks into the program with no real background in singing!   I think this recording is going to sound pretty good by the time you get to the end.

    Just a little constructive criticism: Those high notes that come at the end of the lines... drop down on those high notes, don't reach up for them.  Give them a little more breath support and push down on your innards to nail those high notes.  You do so later in the song and it sounds really good when you have the support.  I like the sound of your voice. 

    Keep up the good work!


  • pmacpmac Pro Posts: 58

    @ Tboo,

    Wow 6 weeks and your 45. I really like your tone.



  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    @Tboo, really well done. I think you have a monster voice hiding in there. Love the tone.
  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    @Tboo.   Great job, it sounds like you've been singing for years.  I really like the overall tone of your voice.  great work on the G# in the chorus, you gave it a little more support than in the verse, and i think it sounded great.  Give it some more support in the verse, as Bob said, and it should sound killer.  Very impressive.  there were a few "pitchy" notes, but that will improve as you move through the program.  also, recording yourself will help identify when the pitch may be drifting.  Keep up the good work.
  • TBooTBoo Member Posts: 3
    @highmtn, @ pmac, and @dingo...

    Thanks for the positive feedback and tips.  I started figuring out some of the breath support stuff by the time I recorded the second part of the song; the first part was really airy and weak, but actually much better than where I had started 3 weeks earlier before the program.

    I actually had forgotten that the forum was part of my "bonus" so I'm just getting into the posts and webinars.  From what I've seen so far, I think it will really help with my learning curve.

    Thanks again.  Do you guys have any demo stuff in the forum?  I'd like to put a voice to the names.

  • sspatricksspatrick Enrolled Posts: 1,278
    i have a live recording under Vocal Distortion from october of 2011, after is had started  with stage 2.  I think it is still up.  Check it out, and let me know what you think.
  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    @TBoo Here is some old stuff from about 8 months ago. Too bad i have no mike here or i would record something new.

  • KokonuhtKokonuht Member, Enrolled Posts: 658
    Pretty good tone you have there! Seems like great progress! You sound great! Not lying lol. From what I hear, you aren't really having Open Throat. Though that will come in time when you learn the sensation of it and learn to apply it to songs. Same goes for support and vowel modifications and not using so much air to sing. :o

    Great demo ;)

    Oh and here's mine..
  • carripolpaktocarripolpakto Enrolled Posts: 5
    ken here is my post ...

  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    I recorded this on my phone. I truly think I am getting worse. Any feedback? Helpful tips?

  • dingodingo Enrolled Posts: 119
    edited June 2012
    Really really nice version of this. You are very connected and the dynamics are great.
    What is your experience in singing?
  • Ken TamplinKen Tamplin Administrator, Moderator Posts: 445

    Hi Pablo,

    Excellent job!

    You are really starting to understand support, pitch and the stamina / technique required to sing a song like this. (I like the Latin approach on guitar, wish I heard even a little more of tha :-t).

    Now if I could encourage you to balance a little more of open throat with mask. You are relying almost totally on mask must at several points I'd like to hear more warmth in the sound.

    Before you atttempt this, stay with the way you are singing the song currently and develop longer more legato phrases as you cut them short. You may be doing this for a "style" think which I understand but now it time to build the upper mid voice even more and doing this will really help.

    Once you have done that, then take into consideration about what I saw "warming" up the sounds.

    If necessary, you can stay with the exact way you are approaching the higher notes, but now in the mid and lower registers balance out the warm form mask by shooting the sound up into the head rather than bringing it down so much into the front of the face.

    I know this is easier for you for now, but in the long run, what I am asking you to do will not only give you more body, power and less shrill and eventually more range becuase you will introduce mask "later / higher" than you are right now.

  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,330


    Your phone recording is hard to review, due to the imbalance of the backing track relative to the level of your vocals, in addition to the complexities of the melodies.  Without a good dose of the backing music it is hard to judge your vocal accuracy, and the melody being both hard to latch on to and also unfamiliar to me gives me little frame of reference to form an evaluation.

    I found a Laura Marling video of Crawled Out of the Sea and listened to it. You are doing a fairly accurate job of nailing that melody, although until I heard it once from the original recording, it was hard for me to evaluate your voice.  Yes, my problem is more with my own point of reference than with your performance.

    Cudos for tackling something more sophisticated than a sing-song hum-drum tune, and for your bravery in posting it for all the world to critique. 

    At a couple of places it sounded like maybe your pitch was tentative, but probably due to the difficulty of singing with support while trying to stay in time and pitch with a cell phone.  I thought that maybe it was a bit breathy and could use just a little more cord closure, but that may just be a stylistic choice, and a matter of taste. 

    I like the sound of your voice and would like to hear more.  Post more, please.  Sing on.


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