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Feeling Lost

Greetings:

I have been watching and listening as well as practicing the course for some time now and I love it; however, I need someone to tell me or guide me in the right direction. I've listened to my voice in the audio practices, listened to myself during studio practice with the band and stage performances and they are very terrible to hear. I literally cringe and cannot bear to hear anymore.

I've inquired this before and was told that I need to listen to learn but boy, it is really hard to do. If I cannot listen to myself, no doubt it was very uncomfortable for the audience too.

Being so out of key is my biggest weakness and embarrassment.

I recall when I first purchased the course, I think in 2017, I believe it came with two free webcams with Ken Tamplin? I never took the opportunity to use them as I am located in Okinawa, Japan. Does that offer expire or can I still take advantage of it?

(I do not know if it matters, but I repurchased again in 2018.)

I also know I can send in my recordings to be reviewed but it would also be great if Ken Tamplin or someone could tell me on the spot what to fix. I realize one fix does not fix all but it would mean a lot to me if I could really start fixing.

Thank you,
Erwin

Comments

  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    Sorry, after I wrote my earlier discussion, I was reading through the forums. I may have confused "singing out of key" with "singing out of pitch".

    When I sing, I "think" I am singing correctly. When I listen to my recording, I am so off.

    Any guidance is greatly appreciated.

    Thank you always.
  • WigsWigs Moderator, 2.0 PRO, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 4,237
    Even though by uploading scales here doesn't give you that instant fix, it is still an extremely valuable way to get objective feedback. We can timestamp certain things for you so you can go back and listen to your self and try to hear what is mentioned. There is no harm in trying this while waiting for a session with Ken and I encourage you to do so in the student area with a basic ah vowel triad, 1 bridging and 1 stretching chest.

    In the meantime I'll tag @highmtn to see if he can help you regarding the lessons from your previous purchase.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,158
    You can inquire at [email protected] regarding any purchases that included lessons with Ken. The standard package does not include free private lessons with Ken and has not for the past several years. If someone purchased a Gold Bundle and did not use the lessons that are included with that package, they should contact KTVA at the email address above and see if they can still get scheduled.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,158
    As far as being unable to tell when you are singing off-pitch, why do you think you are not hearing that when you are singing? Can you hear your voice when you sing, and can you listen to the pitch of the song or exercise you are doing, and determine whether or not you are singing the right pitch? Can you tell if you are lower or higher than the note you are trying to sing?

    If not, you should be using some pitch detection software or app to help you to train your ear to discern pitch differences. Try a 30-day free trial download of something like Sing and See. You use the mic on your computer and see a display that tells you if you are flat, sharp, or on-pitch. This can be helpful if you are totally lost.

    Then you need to really learn to listen and hear what is going on when you sing along with music. You match the pitches of the song.

    Are you doing Ken's pitch program that is in Volume One?

    We learn to sing one note at a time. If we don't know that note, then we have to learn to find it and and learn it and reproduce it accurately, again and again. We learn to control our voice, listen to the sound and the pitch, make comparisons and adjustments to make them work together. Just like singing a nursery rhyme or "happy birthday". We learn easy things first and grow from there. It can be slow going until we begin to see that it's not really that hard, after all. We not only sing, but we listen and make corrections on the fly.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    Wigs said:

    Even though by uploading scales here doesn't give you that instant fix, it is still an extremely valuable way to get objective feedback. We can timestamp certain things for you so you can go back and listen to your self and try to hear what is mentioned. There is no harm in trying this while waiting for a session with Ken and I encourage you to do so in the student area with a basic ah vowel triad, 1 bridging and 1 stretching chest.

    In the meantime I'll tag @highmtn to see if he can help you regarding the lessons from your previous purchase.

    Thank you so much for your reply. I will work on uploading the scales and would appreciate your feedback. I have to find the link that guides how to do uploads but if you have it handy, it would be greatly appreciated as well. I know I did it before but forgot how.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    highmtn said:

    You can inquire at [email protected] regarding any purchases that included lessons with Ken. The standard package does not include free private lessons with Ken and has not for the past several years. If someone purchased a Gold Bundle and did not use the lessons that are included with that package, they should contact KTVA at the email address above and see if they can still get scheduled.

    Thank you. I hope I am replying to everyone's comments correctly by using the "quote" option. Thank you also. I believe it was in 2017 Gold Bundle DVD version that I purchased that included lessons. I will send an email as advised. Thank you again.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    highmtn said:

    As far as being unable to tell when you are singing off-pitch, why do you think you are not hearing that when you are singing? Can you hear your voice when you sing, and can you listen to the pitch of the song or exercise you are doing, and determine whether or not you are singing the right pitch? Can you tell if you are lower or higher than the note you are trying to sing?

    If not, you should be using some pitch detection software or app to help you to train your ear to discern pitch differences. Try a 30-day free trial download of something like Sing and See. You use the mic on your computer and see a display that tells you if you are flat, sharp, or on-pitch. This can be helpful if you are totally lost.

    Then you need to really learn to listen and hear what is going on when you sing along with music. You match the pitches of the song.

    Are you doing Ken's pitch program that is in Volume One?

    We learn to sing one note at a time. If we don't know that note, then we have to learn to find it and and learn it and reproduce it accurately, again and again. We learn to control our voice, listen to the sound and the pitch, make comparisons and adjustments to make them work together. Just like singing a nursery rhyme or "happy birthday". We learn easy things first and grow from there. It can be slow going until we begin to see that it's not really that hard, after all. We not only sing, but we listen and make corrections on the fly.

    Thank you so very much. This is the kind of information I need. After so many years and then recently hearing how horrible my last performance was, I was in that "maybe singing is not for me" mode but I'm forcing myself not to give up.

    It is possible that I may have been quite nervous on stage; therefore, I was not listening to or paying attention to my own singing. One of the band members had humbly suggested that I try a voice effector that has an auto pitch corrector until I am comfortable with my own singing from this training. That did not work out well either as I believe it interfered with the sound controller's equipment. I suppose I was also blown away with two other bands that performed before us, who were way beyond our levels of performance so needless to say, my nervous level skyrocketed when our turn came up. I happen to recently find a youtube video from Ken Tamplin about pitch and he talked about confidence, which I definitely did not have.

    I will check out Sing and See immediately.

    As for the Volumes, I purchased an upgraded program in 2018 so since them, I have been practicing the audio training but I never knew when to move forward or move up to the next lesson. I am on Volume 3 now but If I need to go back to Volume 1, I will. I will review the pitch program in Volume One. Thank you.

    Thank you for the final paragraph. That is so much the information I needed. I truly truly appreciate this.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,158
    edited July 20
    Another thing about singing live with a band or karaoke:

    Make sure you have good monitors that you can hear, that are not drowned out by the band. The band may need to turn down their amplifiers and play softer on the drums if you can't hear yourself singing. You need to be able to hear yourself well enough to discern whether or not you are in-key and on-pitch.

    In-ear monitors can be very helpful for this, because they seal out some of the band sound and seal-in the sound of your own voice. This can possibly make a difference that will tip the balance towards you being able to hear your own voice and also the music in a blend that allows you to better control your voice and actually hear what is going on.

    We all get mortified when we first hear the sound of our own voice, because it sounds so different from what we think it sounds like. We hear our own voice through bone conduction and indirect reflections. When we hear playback of our voice, it will sound completely different to us, and usually makes us cringe. That's just something we have to get past, and hearing lots and lots of recordings of ourselves will help to desensitize our cringe reflex and allow us to become more objective. Hearing yourself sound "bad" will crush your self-esteem, if you allow it to. So don't. Push past that reaction and start listening for small things that you are doing RIGHT. Places where maybe you sound GOOD for a moment. What was it about that part that sounded good? Learn to do more of that. What part of what you heard sounded WRONG, and WHY? Maybe you can learn to minimize that somewhat. Little-by-little you start finding a few more things about your voice that sound better and emphasize more and more of those things, while also improving more things that need more work. That's how we get better. One song, one note at a time. One scale at a time. Work on the weaknesses and learn to turn them into strengths. One note, one line of a song at a time.

    It can seem impossible. It's not. It is entirely possible to make things better, one note at a time. Build upon that.

    Bob
  • sjonrokz4usjonrokz4u 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,273
    Ditto on the monitors being loud enough or the band turning down. I can hear good with my band. I go out to the local rock open mics and can’t hear a f’ing thing. Singing totally blind
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    Thank you so much.

    Thank you for teaching me that the key is definitely not hearing myself enough to know where I am. I will definitely start by talking to the band about turning down the amp.

    On a spur of the moment thought, I just did a quick singing in a quiet room and recorded it on my iphone (without any band or instruments), played it and I was able to listen to it without cringing as much.

    I guess I am in such an embarrassed mode now, thinking of the people our band called to come see our performance. I remember well seeing them smiling and bouncing along with the beat, but most likely, all out of kindness. Ugh.... such a terrible feeling.

    Okay, I am done whining.

    Time to fix myself and keep at it. I love this: "One song, one note at a time. One scale at a time. Work on the weaknesses and learn to turn them into strengths. One note, one line of a song at a time."

    Thank you.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @sjonrokz4u

    I just replayed the video of my last performance and I saw myself looking at bit lost while singing so as you say I may have been seriously "singing blindly". Unfortunately, I was too preoccupied being nervous :-(

    My first thoughts were what happened to me that night??? (Though I have a long way to go) I don't usually sound that bad during studio practice.
  • sjonrokz4usjonrokz4u 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,273
    What’s making you nervous? Do you know the material? If you know it well you should be comfortable performing it unless you’ve only been onstageva couple times. If you got up there knowing you can’t hear right off the bat I understand the nevousness but if you’ve performed that stuff 4 or 5 times and you’re well rehearsed you should be pretty comfortable. Maybe if nerves is a problem try some karaoke or open mic nights to get more comfortable
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @Wigs

    Thank you for the link.

    I will start from Volume 1 and record myself and upload. Thank you again.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @sjonrokz4u

    Thank you for the message.

    That's a very good question. I live in Okinawa, Japan and we perform here. English is my first language, Japanese second. When we perform, it's in front of a Japanese audience and in addition to singing, I'm the one to speak my best Japanese to introduce, chat, MC... and that makes me nervous. If an English speaking crowd, I'd probably be less nervous.

    As for the songs, I have the lyrics memorized but I suppose I do not yet have confidence in my own singing. I've said it to my own daughter a million times when she was taking karate, that proper practice is the key to confidence. Now, I need to tell myself that.

    Thank you. Your message helped me remember that.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    This is a little separate from my topic but when I receive a message and want to respond, I need to sign in. However, each time I sign in, it does not recognize my password and I always need to reset. I reset with the same password each time, yet not success logging in. Am I doing something wrong?
  • WigsWigs Moderator, 2.0 PRO, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 4,237
    I haven't had this problem, what happens if you change your password?
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    Thank you. Let me try and let you know.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @Wigs

    Unfortunately, same thing happens after I changed the password. I close the browser, and in the email notification that I receive (where there is a new comment), I click on the link. It takes me to the comment but to reply, I need to sign in but each time, the sign in fails by not recognizing the password.
  • WigsWigs Moderator, 2.0 PRO, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 4,237
    @highmtn do you know why this happens? I don't have email notification turned on, I normally check in a few times a week at least by going straight to the forum on my phone and it keeps me signed in most of the time.
  • sjonrokz4usjonrokz4u 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,273
    I played on the big base there in 99
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @Wigs @highmtn
    I don't know why this happens. I've tried to sign in from both email notification link and then straight to the ken tamplin forum via google but same problem. I've just tried using a different browser (edge) and surprisingly the same problem. I don't mean to make a big thing out of it, but just a very strange thing.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @sjonrokz4u
    Huh? Really? Wow!
    Kadena Air Base? Kadena Karnival?
    What was the event and your band name?
    So blown away now at this connection :-)
  • sjonrokz4usjonrokz4u 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,273
    we were called roll-n-thunder played there in july of 99 yes Kadena Air base, was there for a week. because of an error on flights we missed opening up for warrant by a day. no particular event we played a club they had on base and if i remember correctly some other small bases that we traveled to. had a great summer that year, we were all over korea japan and singapore. i was playing guitar then
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @sjonrokz4u
    Wow, that is awesome. Wish I was there to see you. Any plans to travel this way again? If so, please let me know and I will certainly be there.

    If it was one year later in 2000, you would have seen the G7 Summit where the world leaders gathered. The island was under heavy security, felt sorry for all the Japanese police standing in guard all throughout the island during the hot summer days.

    The military bases in Okinawa as well as a lot of local places have a lot of bands, always performing somewhere. Can never be without music in Okinawa. My father was a jazz pianist from the Philippines.

    Sorry, I could go on and on about music.

    Thank you for sharing.
  • erwinspinaerwinspina Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 40
    @Wigs @highmtn

    I think I found the problem. It was not my password but my user / email address. I was away from this forum for a while and when I came back recently, I had to send in an inquiry to support to obtain assistance. My user was then set for me at "erwin", which I left alone. I just happen to test it by changing it to my email address and I was able to sign in successfully.

    Sorry for the hassle and thank you for always be readily available to assist.
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