@blackiejane,You have a gift. Your voice is like velvet, smooth and silky. Your piano man was wise to hit the "record" button. You need to use your gift and keep on giving. No, your nervousness does not come across. You did well. You have a very nice voice that is pleasing to hear. You are using an airy tone, but that is the style of this song. Too much air can dry the vocal cords out, so be careful with that sound. It's a beautiful sound, but too much of a good thing can have issues, so you may want to work with some vocals that use more cord closure. Maybe you already do, this is the only time I've heard you. Depending on how much you use your voice, you may need to mix that up a bit between breathy tones and more closure.Good job.Bob
You have a gift. Your voice is like velvet, smooth and silky. Your piano man was wise to hit the "record" button. You need to use your gift and keep on giving.
No, your nervousness does not come across. You did well. You have a very nice voice that is pleasing to hear. You are using an airy tone, but that is the style of this song. Too much air can dry the vocal cords out, so be careful with that sound. It's a beautiful sound, but too much of a good thing can have issues, so you may want to work with some vocals that use more cord closure. Maybe you already do, this is the only time I've heard you. Depending on how much you use your voice, you may need to mix that up a bit between breathy tones and more closure.
This is pretty good. Your voice is interesting, it's on pitch, and it's a decent song. I think you did a good job.
This sounds good. Good tone, good pitch,
Next time, please have the backing track low in the background for reference. Acapella demos could be off-pitch, or down a few notes, so we need to hear a little bit of backing track for reference.
So, the sound of your voice is good. I like it.
There are some very, very minor melody differences if you want to do exactly what Paul Rodgers is doing in the clip you sent me. This is no big deal, but if you want to be even closer, here are the differences.
D4 C4 D4 C4-D4
First line. Word "mama". You do Ma Ma. Paul goes Ma Ma and slides back up to D4 at the end of the syllable.
C4 Bb3 Bb G3-F3 Bb BbBb G F
Goin' away you sing go in a way Paul sings I'm Go-in a way
Paul does a little bend-down on "I'm"
Paul bends up on "Time" (of Big time) and you bend down. He bends down on Gon- of Gonna
on "The door" you hold the same note and then slide down to G.
Paul goes The door with a slide-up on door.
The next line is trickier. Your melody is
G G Bb Bb C Bb G-F
With a tear drop in her eye
Paul sings a nice bend-up-bend-down on "tear"
Bb Bb Bb-C-Bb Bb Bb Bb G-F
With a te - ar drop in her eye
D D F G F C-Bb Bb
Johnny said don't cry ma ma is how you sang it
D D D F D C Bb
Johnny said don't cry mama Is how Paul sang it
C-G G Bb G Bb
Smiled and waved good bye
C-G G Bb Bb Bb
Smiled and waved good bye with the final "Bye" falling in pitch as it fades out
These are very small differences that are part of Paul Rodger's style. He may not even bend these notes in these places when he sings this song now. He may have gotten bored with this exact variation on the melody. BUT if you will learn where he bends his notes and bend them like he does, you will sound more authentically like Paul Rodgers, even though your vocal texture is your own.
You DO sound good on this. If you hadn't provided me with a copy of the song with the music down low, I probably wouldn't have been able to pick out the differences nearly as closely as I am here. There is NOTHING WRONG with the way you did it. It's not flat, it's not sharp, your voice sounds good, even your support is not a problem. It's all good.
But you can see how closely you need to look at each line of every song if you really want to try to capture the flavor of the original artist. Since our voices will sound different anyway, you may want to get the details that you CAN copy as exact as possible, just to help pull you into the Paul Rodgers zone or whomever you are covering.
So I have to say GOOD JOB for all the work you've put into the exercises. Your singing is good. If you want to go that much further, you could go into detail like this and really copy his melodic nuances. I don't have time to go through the entire song, but this is what I do with songs like this. I take a lyric sheet and make marks and symbols that show me where bend-downs and bend-ups and things like that are, and I practice doing them. After using the sheet for a while, I memorize all of the stylistic runs and trills that help to spice the song up. Then I don't need my cheat sheet anymore. It's training wheels, even though you can say I'm cheating. At first, tricky melodic bends can be hard to completely do from memory.
Keep up the good work!
Here is a copy of a melody map I posted a long time ago. This is how I teach myself runs and trills in a song. I just use lines that represent relative pitch. That's close enough for me to be able to recall exactly how the melody goes. If it's trickier, I might write the actual notes in.
I've been asked why I just don't use sheet music. I think this is a lot simpler and quicker. I just need the lyrics and the vocal runs.
Yes, we have to really listen closely to zero-in on some of the fine details to help us get closer to the original artist's performance. Our own spin on it will happen automatically, as we'll never get it exactly the same, due to our individual physical differences. That's what makes the world go 'round.
Paul Rodgers is no slouch. I'd trade voices with him any day. He is a good singer to emulate. Don't beat yourself up on the sound or range of your voice. I was pleased to hear your tone and your pitch accuracy, and how close you were to the original. Since the sample you sent me of Paul Rodgers had the music suppressed, it was easy for me to hear what he was doing. I learned a little bit about his style in doing so. He's good.
Your voice sounds good. Improvements could be made by increasing support, and a little brighter tone. Also, letting some of the sound come out up above, through the mask, would help put a little bit of ring and ping into your tone.
Listen to Ken's "It's the Lah!!! AHH!!!" tone and ping. You want more of that in the sound.
I'm hearing improvements in your voice over your previous demos. A little more compression and support will help you to get more consistency and stability in your voice.
Sounds pretty good, Robby.
It would be better if there was just a bit of backing track there to reference for pitch.
Sounds good, Robby. Nice tone, good support.
Your other file wasn't there, the Led Zeppelin song in the lower key. I didn't see that when it was first posted, for some reason.
I'm not familiar with it. Is there a link to a recording of a full version?
I really think your clip sounds good just the way it is.
I appreciate hearing the Kurt Cobain original, that gives me a frame of reference, as I had not heard that song before. The melody is very different, so it helped to verify that you were doing it right.
I say keep up the good work. That song is good the way you are doing it.
There's really nothing to pick apart. It's good, to my ears, and I can be really picky.
I gave my comments on that particular clip. It sounded good, as-is.
Examples of a Lah scale are better for evaluation of how your application of the techniques is coming along. Every different song by every artist has a lot of subjective things that introduce variables. If there is something obvious that I can point out in an artist's song, then I will, but I certainly know what I'm looking for in the KTVA exercises, and that is what will grow your voice.
This newer clip also needs some backing track in it. Otherwise I have no reference to your pitch. Because your notes slide, they sound flat at first, but that's because there is no reference track. A bigger chunk of a song would be better, with backing tracks. Still, if you do a decent job on it, if it's supported, on pitch, etc. has good tone, then it's good. Then it's "good job".
Your singing voice is improving.
Keep working on it, and it will continue to improve. If I hear something that I think you need to improve, I will definitely let you know. You're on a good track. There is no reason for in me to be critical about something that sounds fine to my ears.
: ^ )
No problem, Robby.
I think you are on the right track. Be confident in that. I wouldn't say that if I didn't think it was true.
Sounds good, Robby. Everything's on pitch. A little more support wouldn't hurt. It's a little airy, but that's probably appropriate for this song.
Yes. More support and more cord closure will reduce the breathiness and put a little more chesty tone in your voice. You're getting there.
This track is totally better for evaluation than any of the ones without backing tracks. A solo voice track is almost meaningless without a reference like this. Solo vocal tracks are OK when added as an addition in case someone wants to double-check a spot, but the backing track is important for referencing pitch.
Your recording mix is also at a great level for hearing your voice very clearly above the music.
As streeter pointed out, "meh" is only an Eb4-D4 bend, and not high enough to need to be modified from ME to Meh.
You are doing a good job of keeping a nice, bright, very AH sound throughout.
On the very first complete scale (G#), at 00:3 the top note (G#) is a closer to G than to G#. Same on the next scale where you should go from A up to an A an octave above, you go from A up to a G#. These are octave scales, so the top note should always be one full octave above the bottom note.
I think it's a case of not having the melody clearly in your mind when you start out down low, rather than simply singing a half-note flat.
On the Bb scale the same thing happens. A is your top note but it should be Bb.
On the B scale you correct that issue and sing from B up to an octave above B correctly. Now you've got the proper melody and intervals of the scale.
The C scale is close, but coming down the scale isn't quite accurate.
C# and D scales are pretty accurate. D# scale a little rough on the way up.
E scale is pretty good. Your top notes start to lose resiliency up top around the F. It's slight there, but you need to be going to the O or Aw as in Loft vowel modification by there on your top-end notes. The breakup is a little more apparent on the top F#. By G up top you probably should be at your oo as in hook. You are modifying a little bit naturally, but you can help it along, and work to keep those notes from breaking up by using your vowel modifications. Somewhere in there, probably at A up top you should be at full Ooh, for A, Bb, and B up top.
The mods are reshaping of the vocal tract in the back of the throat. Your face is still making an AH, not an Aw, oo, or Ooh shape.
Those note locations are estimates, and all the way to B may be too far for you right now in full chest. You're quite close, but we want you to stretch, not strain. So baby steps are OK. You also need to learn to use support better. You will need to increase your support dynamically, pushing down on your insides more as you get higher in the scales. By the time you reach those notes that need modifications, you need to be really pushing down, the higher you go. That support will help you to reduce the air pressure you are applying to your vocal cords, and to make it a smaller stream of air, as well. You can't muscle those notes in your throat. You muscle those notes down in your gut, instead. You gradually shed chest weight as you ascend in pitch.
Coming back down from the top scales is about the same as going up, except that your voice is worn from forcing those top notes. You are also mostly on the correct pitches for the top notes instead of singing a half-step lower when the scales are on their way down.
Going back to the vowel modifications, those will be gradually shading from AH, to Aw, to oo, to Ooh. Think of it as gradual. Each successive note gradually shades a bit towards the next mod. So between the top E and F you begin to shade from AH towards "O" or Aw as in Loft. No sooner are you centered in Aw at about F# or G than you begin shading towards oo, and so it goes as you shade towards Ooh. Ooh is going to be pretty close to a head voice sound, with most of the chest voice sound shed, but still a skoshe of chest still there. It's subtle, but helps you to get there.
You need to work on being able to throttle back the air pressure for those top notes, or you may strain your voice. Think of those really high notes as being easier, and don't push at the throat. Push at holding back the pressure by pressing down at the diaphragm. It's OK to even stop the scales a little lower, and give your voice a chance to adapt to this workload more gradually. This is going to involve some muscular growth and some development of finesse. I think you will do well with this, once you get the hang of it, and the results will be MONSTER. Give yourself some time, and start digesting and implementing these concepts.
Stretching the chest voice is something that is tempting to rush, but it just takes time. It's a very athletic challenge, so think of it in terms of something your body and mind need some time to figure out how to get to. Do make a conscious effort to support your notes, and vary that support as more is needed.
This may be a little unsettling to strip away all of the things that allow us to reveal the core of our voice, but this is where we build the foundation for great singing. When you get the little quirks worked out at the elemental level, with the basic core vowels, we are laying a solid foundation upon which to build a voice that will last for years to come, one that will grow and grow. Upon that, layer, by layer, we will add technique that will build a world-class voice upon a solid foundation of the basic vowels and how to take those vowels to the top of our chest voice capability. After that, we have head voice and an extended mix to work with after the foundation has been properly built and strengthened.
Don't take any of this as bad news. It's all a new frontier, ready and waiting to be improved and perfected. When you get to the point where you know all of this like the back of your hand, you will look back on this and be really glad you learned what you will know by then.
All the best, and thanks for being open about wanting to hear how to approach this.
Sounds good. I think there is sufficient support. Nice tone.
Good vocal tone for this song. Sounds a lot like Lennon.
I don't think the vibrato is over the top. It fits the song.
I would soften the extra "h" in "I just had to la-haugh" and "I saw the photogra- haph" and try to make them "little h's". You can do that by making it more contiguous there, instead of pausing. Lennon doesn't stop the tone as much as you do there. Yours stops the tone, and restarts the tone with an "h", where his is more of a bring the volume down very low (without really stopping) and bringing it back up. Not to say yours sounds all that bad at that point, but that's why your "h" is more abrupt and noticeable at those points.
The vibrato on "Lords" is too much, but the rest of the clip is OK as far as vibrato in my opinion. Also you are punching it out too forcefully on "Lords" for the character of this song. Its a G4, which is a troublesome note for many, but it is sung in head voice on the record. You will also notice on the original that it's overdubbed on that note, so John probably had trouble doing it perfectly every time, too. It sounds like doubling or tripling unison notes. Obviously not done in one take. I've read accounts of the "making of" this song, and it was a crazy patchwork, as they did it on a 4-track tape machine, and had little room for error. One bad punch-in by the engineer and you could mess up something that had been worked on for weeks. It was a two different songs glommed together, but became a masterpiece.
You probably need to practice that note on "Lords", pulling back the air and finding a way to sing it without having to belt it. It becomes incongruous when you sing the whole song very lightly and end on a belting note. That line will work better if you can finesse your way to the G4, more closely matching the tone of the previous lines. If you listen to "Lords" (on the Beatles version) it has NO vibrato, and sounds more like "house of LAHHHH". I thought that was interesting. Probably "house of Lahhhhhh-ds" would be good.
The "Nobody was really sure..." part is B3-A3, singing in a light chest. "OF" is an E4 and is your only note to get ready for the G4. So you should probably be in head voice on "OF" which will set you up to already be in head for the G4. Yes, we should be able to sing a G4 in chest, but only when it's appropriate. You might even be able to do a soft G4 in chest, but it wouldn't sound at all like what Lennon was doing on the song.
Better but needs more work on photograph and laugh.Oh boy should be ohhh boyy.Too much focus on my part in getting the voice closer ;-D
Good song choice for your voice! Pretty good, too. Only 2 owies, both on the same word.
Let's GET. Get at 0:52 and a little bit also on Get at 3:13. Just a skoshe flat. Just a skoshe, actually pretty close. If you just practice nailing "GET" at those two spots, you will pretty much NAIL the song.
I like that you are having fun with it, even with the camera rolling, ad libbing and enjoying the ride. That makes it fun to watch and listen to. You are going to be a hit at the Karaoke bar when you practice nailing a couple of songs like this!
You Rock, Dude! Tom Petty kaulfers!
You definitely got Tom's style down dude.
@kaulfers, Good song choice for your voice! Pretty good, too. Only 2 owies, both on the same word.Let's GET. Get at 0:52 and a little bit also on Get at 3:13. Just a skoshe flat. Just a skoshe, actually pretty close. If you just practice nailing "GET" at those two spots, you will pretty much NAIL the song. I like that you are having fun with it, even with the camera rolling, ad libbing and enjoying the ride. That makes it fun to watch and listen to. You are going to be a hit at the Karaoke bar when you practice nailing a couple of songs like this! You Rock, Dude! Tom Petty kaulfers!Bob
@Kaulfers: This is definitely your best one so far, IMO. Pitch is much better on this. Maybe it was the version, however it sounded like you switched into harmony on the chorus part: "So let's get, to the point..." Maybe you mean to do that, maybe not. But you were pretty much on pitch, still, aside from Bob's aforementioned notes.It sounded like you kind of "followed" the harmony backing tracks there. I think he's singing a G# and you're singing a B on "get", which is one of the harmony parts. If that's what you were going for, then great!Nice job, nice improvements in your pitch, and your tone is nice!
This sounds like the tone could be brighter on the lower parts. A little more support would help.
Your pitch is good. I'm not familiar with this tune, so I don't have a lot more information.
I'm sorry, @Keniel, but the video does not work, and I can't tell what you are saying is disappearing.
To go back to a light sound, you reduce air pressure, but allow a little more air into the sound.
Are you a KTVA student? I could tell you more about your voice if you put up a demo of you doing a KTVA exercise, rather than random snippets of songs.
You should upgrade your forums membership, so you can see the rest of the forum.
Copy and paste a copy of your KTVA receipt into an email to [email protected] . Request a forums upgrade,
and mention your username Keniel.
There are training videos here for students and more information about singing that you should access.
The most striking thing about the way you have been trained so far is that you are lacking support. Somehow your other courses did not emphasize or even teach it. Really pay attention to what Ken says about support.
Also, get your forums status upgraded as soon as you can. There are a lot of articles on support and other important KTVA principles that you can't see with your "member" status.
You will learn a lot here, and your goal of gaining more power and stamina will be realized if you follow Ken's instructions and practice diligently.
All that Ken teaches you about the moving targets is true. It may seem like a lot of minor details, but they all combine together to form the basis for good singing technique.
You are on the way to your goals.
You have been upgraded to PRO.
Your demo sounds very nice. You are at a good point to build from. Learn all you can about breath support and the bright sound with cord closure.
Do the exercises in the program diligently, and your voice will grow and grow.
I will be excited to hear your voice as you gain more strength, power, and range.
Welcome to KTVA!
Sounds pretty good. If you want to get a little more "Jim Morrison" sound on that song, you may want to drop your larynx just a bit (not too much) to get a little deeper baritone sound happening. Likewise, you can really open up the back of the throat and get a nice, full, deep sound, while still going for that bright ping of good cord closure with emphasis on brightness.
Hello again, another small job, I need to know things i must to improve please.
I have to sit when I sing, because I'm a drummer (not in a marching band, either). So it's not really BAD that you sit, especially if you're tired, but it is BETTER to stand, because it's harder to support properly when you sit.
So please stand for your demo, so at least you won't have to work any harder to support your voice, due to the sitting.
I just looked at Google + hangouts and didn't see any messages from anyone.
highmtn said:@seeker,Yes, you can gradually raise your F#4 Call Voice limitation, and that IS what is meant by Stretching Chest Voice. It's very slow-going, but by gently and persistently trying to avoid slipping into head voice and going on up to G4, G#4, etc. you will eventually be able to stretch that up to A4 or higher, if you keep at it long enough. Ideally you will keep trying and succeeding, a little at a time, until you make it up to about C5 or so. Your Primo Passaggio may also move up a notch or two.In future demos, if you have a means to do so, it would be helpful to hear a little bit of backing track (Music accompaniment) behind your voice, as a pitch reference. We still want to hear your voice predominantly, but a light music track will help us to hear how close your pitch is to the reference track.Good job of putting your voice out there. Bob
@seeker,Yes, you can gradually raise your F#4 Call Voice limitation, and that IS what is meant by Stretching Chest Voice. It's very slow-going, but by gently and persistently trying to avoid slipping into head voice and going on up to G4, G#4, etc. you will eventually be able to stretch that up to A4 or higher, if you keep at it long enough. Ideally you will keep trying and succeeding, a little at a time, until you make it up to about C5 or so. Your Primo Passaggio may also move up a notch or two.In future demos, if you have a means to do so, it would be helpful to hear a little bit of backing track (Music accompaniment) behind your voice, as a pitch reference. We still want to hear your voice predominantly, but a light music track will help us to hear how close your pitch is to the reference track.Good job of putting your voice out there. Bob