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False Chord Growling + Fry Screaming

seekerseeker Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 83
edited December 2014 in The Singer's Lobby
Alright,so I have been doing false chord growling on and off for 4 years now.
It stressed (doesn't hurt) my voice lots of times but when I warm up properly it just doesn't hurt.
How can you tell if someone is developing vocal nodules/damaging the voice?
Any idea if vocal chord screaming is harmful ? lots of vocalists do it safely (I know I can),I'm still experimenting with warm up techniques to get the best out of it.
I once did it for 3 consecutive hours without any vocal damage :P Yeah ! that's a lot ! hahaha
I truly love this kind of distortion and I plan on getting the best out of it without damaging my voice if possible!

What about Fry screaming ? the mixture of falsetto and glottal compression?
Chester bennington does that kind of screaming along with many vocalists,I saw ken doing it once on a video as well :)

Much appreciated!


  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,357
    edited December 2014


    KTVA only recommends the types of distortion that are taught in Volume 3 and in the new Pro Videos.

    You should not advance to this until you have worked your way through the growth needed to support this type of singing by completing the volumes without skipping ahead.

    You can hurt yourself doing so, and you may already have damaged your cords by some of the methods you are using that you say have not hurt you.  Many singers sing along for about five years feeling like superman, and then suddenly lose it.  End of singing career.

    KTVA does not teach fry screaming.  KTVA does not teach False Vocal Fold Screaming.

    What KTVA does teach is some pretty gnarly-sounding, but safe sounds.  Yes, you hear Ken doing some really gnarly "screams" in some of his YouTube videos, but even though they sound blood-curdling, they are done with safe techniques when you do them as trained and instructed.  These are NOT fry or false vocal fold.  They are done with glottal compression and a lighter distortion. 

    As you noted, what Ken teaches does sound "like" the other, but is much safer.  When you get to that stage in your training, and learn to do it, you will be quite happy with the distortion, AND you will not have to sacrifice your voice forever.  Your voice will last as long as you continue to use it properly! 


    All the Best!


  • hcj1967hcj1967 Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 15
    edited January 2016
    @highmtn Ken talks about false vocal fold engagement in Xiomara Crystal's singing Steven Tyler's Cryin' YouTube post @ around 3:33 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H8_bvQFoNc

    Can you explain what Ken means by that? I personally agree, KTVA's techniques are safer and after we learn them well, we can use other techniques to a limited extent (i.e., vocal fry, vocal fold engagement, others?) for effect. Is my understanding correct?

    One great example would be that while Ken prescribes holding our breath as much as possible during all of Volume 3 exercises - We limit it to not dry out the voice (That's just one of the purposes...). It does not mean we won't or can't add more air when the song or the effect/feeling we desire calls for more air.

    Another example might be (conceptually speaking) - We first learn to stretch our chest voice as high as possible safely and after a long time of building that foundation, we work on strengthening the head voice much more bringing it down to chest (fusing it to the strong foundation - Kind of like building a house (head voice) and attaching it to that strong foundation; keeping both strong to maximize our blending and having a powerful ONE VOICE... We then can use falsetto for effect...etc.

    -- Bake the cake before adding the frosting and cherry on top, which are full of sugar and as we all know too much sugar (bad vocal habits) call kill you and the voice. LOL

    Hope I'm on the right track and understanding...Otherwise, I know you'll expand upon what I said, correct me if I'm wrong, and fill any gaps.

  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,357
    Hang in there for the answer to this one...
  • hcj1967hcj1967 Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 15
    edited January 2016
    Thanks. This might be great for a video discussion by Ken on adding color/effects after learning/mastering proper KTVA techniques - I'm thinking effects are part of the art of singing and that proper management of the stress & not the 100% absence of stress of some of those effects - Some are permissible to a limited extent/use and others are not because of their high potential for vocal damage. Again, thank you.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,357
    edited January 2016
    You said the magic words... potential for vocal damage.

    Ken is going to try to get time to address this post. He's been on travel this week.
  • seekerseeker Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 83
    Ken is going to comment on a post I've made? That's an accomplishment to enlist.
    @hcj1967 I know some vocal fry, false chord growling or screaming is pretty detrimental, I quit it a while ago, like half a year ago or so, I found no safe method to do it, vocal fry is gentle and I don't push my voice that much, gotta be warmed up as hell for that, I don't overdo it, I'm sure it'll get way better when I get back to working on the program, I haven't worked on it for like 2 months now...
    Bottom line, I'm sure ken knows better than me but I found vocal fry to be fine if it's in a well controlled way, it takes some time to build that relaxation with a controlled air flow.
  • hcj1967hcj1967 Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 15
    edited January 2016
    Examples: Only after KTVA vocal techniques are built in muscle memory...Using VOCAL EFFECTS to add more dynamics to a singing performance.

    1. KTVA support/hold back breadth - Add breathiness for effect as needed with support
    2. KTVA Open throat/tongue forward & concave, brightness - Tongue retraction only as an effect/covered sound//Eddie Vetter/STP/Creed (Fact is this sound is very popular in many styles, especially alternative rock). Overusing any effect is usually detrimental/kills dynamics.
    3. KTVA compression - Using light vocal fry or cry occasionally to lend/add emotion/feeling...
    4. KTVA hyper glottal compression/distortion - Extent one can use false vocal folds to add some noise/effect...not necessarily screaming/extremes, which are highly damaging to the voice.
    5. Others:


    Style (vowel modifications) even on the chest voice (lower notes) for style) - mostly shades of eh with ee and aa, (stay), and shades of uh with ah and ee

    Words like: WHY = Wuh-ee; LEARNED = luh-r(ned)-->(ned) means just enough pronunciation/not to over-enunciate, and adding brightness, if needed to sound better, hear and be heard (perceived) on pitch by the audience

    What about purposeful Larynx manipulation for effect/style?
  • hcj1967hcj1967 Pro, 2.0 PRO Posts: 15
    edited February 2016
    Cool...so over time one can actually develop this to extremes with the caveats Ken discusses.
  • highmtnhighmtn Administrator, Moderator, Enrolled, Pro, 3.0 Streaming Posts: 15,357
    Yes. But remember, this is simulating high-volume and simulating distortion. It's not at all as loud and monstrous as it sounds. And always go back and get your sound cleaned-up afterwards, or you will get stuck in a distorted sound.

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