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Voice Repair And Phonation Issues (Nodes)

Hello! I’ve been struggling with voice nodules for years and it has gotten worse over the years and I just wanted to see how I can get good phonation with my sound. I’m at the point where I even struggle to speak. I bought the Voice Repair course last May/June and I was getting some improvement at first but now I’m back at square one vocally (maybe even worse). I can’t seem to get rid of this uncomfortable breathy/scratchy sound. I’m pushing down on the diaphragm and holding back the breathe but I can’t seem to get through the notes properly. Can someone assist me on how I can get proper phonation?

HERE IS A VIDEO OF ME PRACTICING THE “LAA” VOWEL



Comments

  • skv123159skv123159 Member Posts: 87
    Hi
    Hope you are doing well
    Yes there is quite a lot breathiness in voice
    I think you should go to ent specialist and ask for his advice
    May be vocal fry might help focus on creating some cord closure
    But I highly recommend go to an doctor and ask for his consultation
    Get well soon
  • Klaus_TKlaus_T Moderator, 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,857
    while it is always safest to check with a doctor if there are problems, this does not sound "unsalvageable" to me, you are overusing air, but not more than a lot of people do when they first start learning how to sing

    first, dial back your volume, you are too loud. for proper cord closure, make sure you have the bright AH ping that Ken is using (or try your best to imitate it).

    also, do the lip drill, and you can do the candle test: go really close (not too close) to the candle with your mouth, and see if you can do the exercise without blowing out the candle.

    it is possible that you think you support properly, when in fact you just go through the motions. read as much as you can about support on this forum, and implement it in your exercises
  • codeowlcodeowl 2.0 PRO Posts: 303
    @Miquan,

    I have one tip for you on the lip burble candle test. I found when I did this the candle flame didn't move at all, even though it was right in front of me, and I thought, oh I totally nailed that... what a star, it didn't even move at all... (lolololllll). But I found on closer analysis of what was happening that, when I do the lip drill my top lip ends up sitting behind my bottom lip a bit, and this projected the air on an up wards angle. This resulted in the air going right over the top of the candle, and if I just lifted the candle until I saw the flame start being effected by the air, and then moved it around a bit to find the spot where it was 'most affected' by the air, it showed an accurate gauge of how much air I was using, resulting in me looking like way less of a star... lololollll.

    Regards,

    Scotty
  • MiquanMiquan 2.0 PRO Posts: 9
    Thanks for the feedback fellas! Let me give a little more context. I’ve been singing for about 20 years and I’ve actually had the KTVA course since about 2016. Support was my main issue that I’ve struggled with. I would train with volume 1 and feel improvement and my chords would feel nice and stretched but then my voice would be hoarse afterwards. I would go for a while without singing and hope my voice would get better from rest. I would get discouraged and take months off from training. I would then come back and get the same results. Fast forward to about 2019 my speaking voice would be hoarse all the time from the time I wake up til I go to sleep. I realized that I had nodes so I bought the Voice Repair course May of 2020. I felt like I would get better then my voice would go back to being hoarse. I train as soft as I can pushing all of the strength from the diaphragm but I have to give the sound a little volume to have some sort of ping and brightness in the sound. Any less volume would be nothing but air. I will try that candle exercise, I appreciate the suggestion!
  • MiquanMiquan 2.0 PRO Posts: 9
    This is what I sound like when I speak

  • sjonrokz4usjonrokz4u 2.0 PRO Posts: 1,276
    So the scale sounds like your just lacking support. I’m not exactly sure which laa scale you’re doing. The speaking voice sounds like you should go see an ent and if they suggest, a speech therapist.
  • codeowlcodeowl 2.0 PRO Posts: 303
    edited March 23
    @Miquan,

    I struggled with support my first time doing the coarse to the point where my voice was burning out and going hoarse. I didn't realize at the time that support was the issue. You can read about my experience here and see if you relate:
    https://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/15501/hi-from-a-land-down-under

    Here is a post which describes how I understand support now, it may help you with your understanding/implementation of it. It also has a really cool MRI of diaphragmatic breathing that may help to visualize what exactly you are supporting (eg; your diaphragm that has come down when you breathed in):
    https://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/comment/84437/#Comment_84437

    Here is a discussion I had with another friend in the forum where we talked about the other component that works with support to save your voice, which is breath control:
    https://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/comment/84588/#Comment_84588

    I have gone from burning out every other day to now just being a bit croaky, it is like a vocal fry. I am going to see an ENT in a few weeks to have some analysis done to see if I have sustained some damage from singing with force and no technique for years, and if so what can be done about this. If not, my technique continues to improve as I practice I get better at things like starting of softly with support and using less air as I go up in pitch.
    There are a number of things discussed further up in the above thread that talk about how to move up in pitch without pushing and with greater ease. I point to timestamps in Kens videos where he demonstrates these things.
    https://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/comment/84489/#Comment_84489

    I think if, before you start singing you can't talk without sounding like you have lost your voice, seeing a doctor and getting an examination of your vocal cords done would be a good move. Even if you have to not sing or talk for a week or whatever they advise to allow things to heal, then follow up with them and once you have the healing sorted, you can start with a clean slate. Then have a look through the links above and focus 100% on getting a handle on support and breath control.

    A couple of other tips:
    It would be a good move to go back to the starter exercises in Volume 1 and start there when you get back to it. I went back to them as they are a bit slower and easier for me to do, so I could focus just on support.

    Make sure you are standing up when you sing, as you are focusing on developing support and you loose a % of that when you sit down. At this point you want to get rid of anything that detracts from support.

    Good luck mate, I think you can do this if you work out where you stand from a medical point, put all your efforts into healing, and then developing support and breath control and then build the other aspects of technique on this.

    If you only sounding hoarse when you sing, then I think you could just put all your focus on support and breath control, but if you can't talk without sounding hoarse, even when you don't sing, then I think start with a medical examination from an ENT to determine exactly what is going on. I also agree with @sjonrokz4u that if your ENT suggests/agrees a speech therapist could be helpful, especially if you have been like this for a long while.
    I have solved a huge percentage of my problems but I still plan to get an examination, due to my history of singing hard and pushing hard with no technique for years, and then I will know if there is a problem I need to get fixed, or if I can resolve it with technique alone and it will just take more time.

    Regards,

    Scotty
  • MiquanMiquan 2.0 PRO Posts: 9
    UPDATE!!!

    @codeowl I checked out all of your recommendations and the video where you showed the MRI of the breathing helped me out a ton! I held my breathe and no air came through to my cheeks. That let me know that no air was passing across the vocal folds. So as I held my breathe, I gave it some phonation and the breathiness wasn’t there as I let sound out. So I started applying that principle to the starter exercises in volume 1 (which I haven’t trained with in at least 6 months) and the exercises were much easier. I’ve been practicing this for the last 6 days and my voice is finally coming back! Each day my voice is getting stronger and my range is returning! Speaking is starting to get easier for me as well! I’ve had nodes for years and It’s amazing what that one adjustment can do to reverse them! I’m going to keep practicing the starter exercises for a month and then move on to main work outs. I just want you to know that I really appreciate the help (and everyone else who chimed in) and I will keep you all posted on the improvements! I’m floored by how much of a difference that breathing adjustment made!
  • MiquanMiquan 2.0 PRO Posts: 9
    Here is the update of my voice! (You can compare this to how bad my voice sounded over a week ago in the comments above)

    https://youtube.com/shorts/ldZTVnnxg2A
  • RandyBRandyB 2.0 PRO Posts: 367
    Sounding much better, my man! Seems like you’re getting the issues you were having resolved. Keep it up.

    Happy singing,
    Randy
  • MiquanMiquan 2.0 PRO Posts: 9
    Much appreciated @RandyB !! Happy singing to you as well!
  • codeowlcodeowl 2.0 PRO Posts: 303
    edited March 23
    @Miquan,

    Dude!! I am so happy for you, what great news!!. This is just awesome, well done to you for applying yourself and really focusing on developing the technique you need to have a healthy voice, and putting in the time to do the research and experimentation.

    I found that my healing happened in stages. I had a break of many months after my first failed attempt, and on my second attempt I went great at the start after working out how to lift my soft palate, which meant I could get the higher notes in chest without pushing heaps of air to try and get them, but then after singing 6 nights a week for 5 weeks and one day after work doing a warm up in the car (eg; sitting) I found my voice wearing again, and then did all the research here on support and this opened up the next level of healing/development, and then with the confidence that grew out of that I ended up singing a bit harder and then went back a step again getting croaky/hoarse, then more research and finally worked out breath control was also another big factor that you need to use with support, and so now with both of those in place, I am doing pretty well.

    Thanks for taking the time to come back and give us an update. This is really made my day!!
    Your voice is sounding great in the video too!!

    Hey, I got one more tip for you... In my second attempt at the coarse I have been taking an analytical approach to my practice that has really helped me compound the knowledge I learn. In my first attempt I would have a break through on something that made going up in pitch easier for example, and I thought this is a total game changer, and then a week or even the next day, I couldn't do it again. I have talked in the posts I sent you above, (most of which I have updated as I thought of more stuff to add :smile: ), about documenting breakthroughs and videoing demonstrations of your self for reference where you analyse and describe all components that enabled it... In the following post I outline an analytical approach to learning Ken's technique, and developing/refining your ability to execute it. Keep focusing on support, it is easy to let it slip once things get better, (especially if you sing and play as your focus is more divided, I play guitar), you really need to build it into your muscle memory through focused repetition. But as you start looking at other aspects of technique:
    - Support / Breath Control
    - Soft Palate
    - Larynx Position
    - Open Jaw (back of the jaw)
    - Vowel Mods
    - Stretching Chest
    - Bridging (from chest into head)

    Using the approach in the following link has helped me be able to hear components of technique that Ken is demonstrating and identify exactly where I am lacking in my execution of technique and what I need to focus on, and the checklist helps me to actually focus on them. Its so easy to get half way through your practice and think why is this so hard to night or I forgot to do X and now my voice is croaky. Especially when somethings may only apply to low notes, or just to high notes, or certain vowels etc... Like if I don't lower my larynx when going into low notes, it wears my voice. As the scales start with low notes, if I forget it, then it really has a negative affect on that nights practice.
    https://forum.kentamplinvocalacademy.com/discussion/comment/84765/#Comment_84765

    I think I will stay on the Starter Exercises until I nail all of the above dot points, and then I will move onto the Main Audio Workouts and work on being able to apply all those components of technique to the faster and more demanding exercises of the Main Audio Workouts. I may even start with slowing them down a bit first. And then increasing speed over time to normal speed. I have a program called Karaoke Surgeon I got onto that can change speed without changing pitch, and it works with heaps of different audio and vid formats as well as karaoke files and has a ton of other features. There are prob free ones you could find that do similar, but I find this one really good.

    Anyway, really great to hear your update mate and I look forward to hearing of your progress!

    Oh, and remember to take one day off a week too! :smiley:

    Regards,

    Scotty
  • skv123159skv123159 Member Posts: 87
    edited March 23
    @Miquan
    Hi
    I just watch
    Miquan said:

    Here is the update of my voice! (You can compare this to how bad my voice sounded over a week ago in the comments above)

    https://youtube.com/shorts/ldZTVnnxg2A

    Amazing your voice now sound more better and it is more brighter
    Which is great
    Just wanna say keep doing what you are doing because it is really healing your voice.
    I suggest make a vedio about it there might be many people who might be facing same problem like this so share it
    It might help some one
    Happy singing

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