Best Of
Re: Uncomfortable voice placement
hi, i seen this hasn't been answered in a good while, maybe nobody else recognized the feeling. i don't, but i work indoors and talk a lot at work, so cannot relate myself. i guess you could do some lip rolls/scales during the day to prevent this? or, come home and do a warmup to release the voice? have you tried this?
Klaus_T
1 ·
Re: Can I improve? (Help)
first of all, if there is any inflammation on or near your cords, you must be careful, so this is the medical disclaimer you knew was gonna come: if you are unsure if there is an inflammation there, check with an ENT. otherwise, there will be a risk of long-term damage.
having said that: you sound like a lot of people when they start, well if you already knew how to sing well, you would not have bought the course, right? you don't sound especially bad or anything, just not like a trained singer. well, that is because you aren't (yet)
but you can and will be. 17 is very young, you have so much time to become amazing.
all of the points you are worried about are addressed in the course (tone, pitch, control, versatility etc.). just start the course properly, do it for a few months, and see the results. it will take a good few years to become a good singer, but there will be all these milestones before you are there, and progress will happen in short intervals. if you stick with it, you will sound better after 1 month, trust me.
make sure you do the course right by submitting your exercises for feedback regularly, ask as much as you want to know on this forum, and become a great singer with us...
look on youtube, Ken has a video "how to get rid of mucus" (or sometthing like that) and follow that advice, too. also, make sure to eat healthy stuff. from what you say it sounds like you might have some kind of allergy (seasonal/food/dust) maybe?
having said that: you sound like a lot of people when they start, well if you already knew how to sing well, you would not have bought the course, right? you don't sound especially bad or anything, just not like a trained singer. well, that is because you aren't (yet)
but you can and will be. 17 is very young, you have so much time to become amazing.all of the points you are worried about are addressed in the course (tone, pitch, control, versatility etc.). just start the course properly, do it for a few months, and see the results. it will take a good few years to become a good singer, but there will be all these milestones before you are there, and progress will happen in short intervals. if you stick with it, you will sound better after 1 month, trust me.
make sure you do the course right by submitting your exercises for feedback regularly, ask as much as you want to know on this forum, and become a great singer with us...
look on youtube, Ken has a video "how to get rid of mucus" (or sometthing like that) and follow that advice, too. also, make sure to eat healthy stuff. from what you say it sounds like you might have some kind of allergy (seasonal/food/dust) maybe?
Klaus_T
2 ·
Re: Being a frontman/frontwoman - what does it take to be a good one?
Thanks Ragnar and Voodoo
I like R's comment about conversation. I agree but sometimes it's like you do all the talking - or maybe I need to be a better listener haha! It's a solid point though - mates of mine play surf garage punk, not particularly well, but they look and act the part. Their crowd is of course lots of bopping young girls and scensters. Works well for them because venues love their young drinking crowds and they get lots of gigs. They also love to party, which makes them good fun for local promoters and other bands that do the same - which also amounts to more gigs and the occasional tour. Never underestimate the power of sticking around for a few beers after your set!
I play guitar and sing each song. I'm also the default band leader and guide the band through most of the changes since foldback is not always the best at the venues we play. It's hard to do since you're mostly facing away from the band singing but occasionally have to shoot a glance here or there to bring things together when someone misses a cue or to wrap a song. Makes it hard to really let go and connect with an audience - but it's possible and I've seen it done really well.
Voodoo - I definitely understand your comment but could you give an example of what you do to achieve that connection and where/how you try to lead them?
I think intensity plays a part. When I pull faces to sing notes or fling my guitar around we get a lot of hoots from the crowd. I guess it conveys that you're singing or playing your ass off. Same when our drummer gets a chance to let it off the chain - people go mental. Perhaps it really just boils down to the kind of energy you inject into your performance. If you're having fun and letting hell loose then the audience feeds of that and reciprocates - which perhaps ties back to R's point about performance as conversation.
I like R's comment about conversation. I agree but sometimes it's like you do all the talking - or maybe I need to be a better listener haha! It's a solid point though - mates of mine play surf garage punk, not particularly well, but they look and act the part. Their crowd is of course lots of bopping young girls and scensters. Works well for them because venues love their young drinking crowds and they get lots of gigs. They also love to party, which makes them good fun for local promoters and other bands that do the same - which also amounts to more gigs and the occasional tour. Never underestimate the power of sticking around for a few beers after your set!
I play guitar and sing each song. I'm also the default band leader and guide the band through most of the changes since foldback is not always the best at the venues we play. It's hard to do since you're mostly facing away from the band singing but occasionally have to shoot a glance here or there to bring things together when someone misses a cue or to wrap a song. Makes it hard to really let go and connect with an audience - but it's possible and I've seen it done really well.
Voodoo - I definitely understand your comment but could you give an example of what you do to achieve that connection and where/how you try to lead them?
I think intensity plays a part. When I pull faces to sing notes or fling my guitar around we get a lot of hoots from the crowd. I guess it conveys that you're singing or playing your ass off. Same when our drummer gets a chance to let it off the chain - people go mental. Perhaps it really just boils down to the kind of energy you inject into your performance. If you're having fun and letting hell loose then the audience feeds of that and reciprocates - which perhaps ties back to R's point about performance as conversation.
micj
1 ·
My own experience
1. If you do any vocal technique for the first time it will feel terribly wrong. How ever this does not mean you doing it wrong. Just do not force your self.
2. None except your self is acountable for your vocal health. A vocal coach Provides guidance but if you are impatient if you are just Parotting him and if you are not listening to your body at all it is 100% your own fault.
3. Looking good can hinder you from sounding good. (Being a beatboxer and playing the persian Ney I know what I am talking about)
4. There are a lot misconception about toungeplacement. Because many do not understand which roles the tounge plays in Tone Produktion. Like choosing the cavety, controlling overtones.
5. Nothing helps more than recording your self and watching back.
6. Improvement never is linear. There will be series where you have less improvement and yes it is Frustrating. Sometimes you will feel like you got even worse. How ever that's normal. Ober time you still achieve big improvement.
2. None except your self is acountable for your vocal health. A vocal coach Provides guidance but if you are impatient if you are just Parotting him and if you are not listening to your body at all it is 100% your own fault.
3. Looking good can hinder you from sounding good. (Being a beatboxer and playing the persian Ney I know what I am talking about)
4. There are a lot misconception about toungeplacement. Because many do not understand which roles the tounge plays in Tone Produktion. Like choosing the cavety, controlling overtones.
5. Nothing helps more than recording your self and watching back.
6. Improvement never is linear. There will be series where you have less improvement and yes it is Frustrating. Sometimes you will feel like you got even worse. How ever that's normal. Ober time you still achieve big improvement.
Jcb
4 ·
Re: Bruce Dickinson - Shadow of the gods
Sounds good! Some nice vibrato, good pitch, support, etc. The only thing again with this recording is that the backing track is too loud, and you have too much delay on your voice, making it more difficult to hear.
If you start the course, then you'll be able to sing this an octave higher!
If you start the course, then you'll be able to sing this an octave higher!
charlie_v
1 ·
Re: INFJs cover song thread (80 songs and counting)
Hi @INFJ!
Firstly, MBTI is such a fascinating psychological theory! I hadn't really thought about it, but it's almost inevitable that people with different types will learn differently. You're right about me: I have no problem doing the exercises repeatedly, because I'm confident they will bear fruit. (Interestingly, I'd given up on a couple of other courses because I wasn't confident I was making progress). But my wife, an INTP, definitely prefers to learn in a different way. If she wanted to learn to sing, I'm not sure I could imagine her learning in the same way.
In your experience, what is the best way for you to acquire new skills? Whatever skill you're seeking (sport, learning a language, singing), you need time on the job. What's the best way for you to do this?
Secondly, in terms of how much support, I suppose it's about comparing the sound we're making to the sound we hear others make. When I first learned this, I was amazed at how strong my voice suddenly sounded: it was rich and powerful, rather than airy. I didn't even need to record myself: the difference was so obvious. I wonder if it would help to record yourself doing one of the exercises, and then play it back, interspersing with Ken doing the same exercise, and seeing if you can hear the difference? Then you can experiment with how much abdominal tightness you apply, and listening for changes in what comes out. This is about training to hear your voice to hear what is happening, rather than what you are trying to do.
Thirdly, I saw an ad for a T-shirt on Facebook recently. It said "I don't play guitar because I'm amazing. I play guitar because I enjoy it." That's a great lesson for us! Could I develop my voice to become a top singer? In theory yes. Am I going to put in the hours to get close to this? No. So, my aim is to enjoy my singing, celebrate the arrival of head voice, look forward to building this, then being able to sing seamlessly from low to high. I'm happy to keep working on that!
Fourthly, I'm also learning Spanish. I often hear people mocking foreigners who can't speak English well. But I know just how much work goes into getting my Spanish to an intermediate level. Really good singers would never mock another person's efforts, because they know how much time and effort is required to get a great voice. And I'm not too concerned what those who've never learned to sing think. (Although it would be impolite for me to try and impose my voice on them if they didn't like my singing!)
Fifthly, singing songs is way more difficult than doing the exercises. This is why the course is all focused on exercises until the end. In one interview, Gabi said that when she's learning a song, she starts by just listening to it about 20 times. 20 TIMES!!! In contrast, I'm normally trying to sing it within 1-2 run throughs. I think Gabi is showing the depth an excellent singer goes to in order to master a song. Therefore, I suggest you take a small portion of a song, (10-20 seconds max), and just work on that, focusing on the core skills you've developed one at a time, until you're confident it's all there. It would be interesting to record a before and after, i.e. singing it before you did the work, and then again afterwards. But if that's not your preferred way of learning, you need to find a different way that achieves the same results.
Finally, with regard to this latest audio clip, I note you said that your voice never feels strained, which is generally positive. My voice can feel tired after a workout, and sometimes the pitch of my speaking voice drops. But I face a constant temptation to push for notes at the top of my passagio, and I can feel tension in my throat. I wonder if it's worth repeating the passage, but try singing it really quietly, having a laser focus on throat tension? Try singing it a few notes lower, and again seeing if there's a difference in tension that you can feel.
So, my suggestions for practice are:
1. Record an exercise, then play it back and compare it to Ken's sound. Can you hear differences?
2. Experiment with different levels of abdominal tension, to see if you can produce a different sound. Perhaps do some exercises when doing a sit up at 45˚: that'll give you masses of abdominal pressure!
3. Songs are SO difficult. Work on small sections at a time, focusing on each of the core skills you need.
Hope that helps!
Firstly, MBTI is such a fascinating psychological theory! I hadn't really thought about it, but it's almost inevitable that people with different types will learn differently. You're right about me: I have no problem doing the exercises repeatedly, because I'm confident they will bear fruit. (Interestingly, I'd given up on a couple of other courses because I wasn't confident I was making progress). But my wife, an INTP, definitely prefers to learn in a different way. If she wanted to learn to sing, I'm not sure I could imagine her learning in the same way.
In your experience, what is the best way for you to acquire new skills? Whatever skill you're seeking (sport, learning a language, singing), you need time on the job. What's the best way for you to do this?
Secondly, in terms of how much support, I suppose it's about comparing the sound we're making to the sound we hear others make. When I first learned this, I was amazed at how strong my voice suddenly sounded: it was rich and powerful, rather than airy. I didn't even need to record myself: the difference was so obvious. I wonder if it would help to record yourself doing one of the exercises, and then play it back, interspersing with Ken doing the same exercise, and seeing if you can hear the difference? Then you can experiment with how much abdominal tightness you apply, and listening for changes in what comes out. This is about training to hear your voice to hear what is happening, rather than what you are trying to do.
Thirdly, I saw an ad for a T-shirt on Facebook recently. It said "I don't play guitar because I'm amazing. I play guitar because I enjoy it." That's a great lesson for us! Could I develop my voice to become a top singer? In theory yes. Am I going to put in the hours to get close to this? No. So, my aim is to enjoy my singing, celebrate the arrival of head voice, look forward to building this, then being able to sing seamlessly from low to high. I'm happy to keep working on that!
Fourthly, I'm also learning Spanish. I often hear people mocking foreigners who can't speak English well. But I know just how much work goes into getting my Spanish to an intermediate level. Really good singers would never mock another person's efforts, because they know how much time and effort is required to get a great voice. And I'm not too concerned what those who've never learned to sing think. (Although it would be impolite for me to try and impose my voice on them if they didn't like my singing!)
Fifthly, singing songs is way more difficult than doing the exercises. This is why the course is all focused on exercises until the end. In one interview, Gabi said that when she's learning a song, she starts by just listening to it about 20 times. 20 TIMES!!! In contrast, I'm normally trying to sing it within 1-2 run throughs. I think Gabi is showing the depth an excellent singer goes to in order to master a song. Therefore, I suggest you take a small portion of a song, (10-20 seconds max), and just work on that, focusing on the core skills you've developed one at a time, until you're confident it's all there. It would be interesting to record a before and after, i.e. singing it before you did the work, and then again afterwards. But if that's not your preferred way of learning, you need to find a different way that achieves the same results.
Finally, with regard to this latest audio clip, I note you said that your voice never feels strained, which is generally positive. My voice can feel tired after a workout, and sometimes the pitch of my speaking voice drops. But I face a constant temptation to push for notes at the top of my passagio, and I can feel tension in my throat. I wonder if it's worth repeating the passage, but try singing it really quietly, having a laser focus on throat tension? Try singing it a few notes lower, and again seeing if there's a difference in tension that you can feel.
So, my suggestions for practice are:
1. Record an exercise, then play it back and compare it to Ken's sound. Can you hear differences?
2. Experiment with different levels of abdominal tension, to see if you can produce a different sound. Perhaps do some exercises when doing a sit up at 45˚: that'll give you masses of abdominal pressure!
3. Songs are SO difficult. Work on small sections at a time, focusing on each of the core skills you need.
Hope that helps!
charlie_v
2 ·
Re: INFJs cover song thread (80 songs and counting)
@INFJ I've been thinking a bit more about this. In your first post, you said: "The objective is to get feedback, so I that know if I suck or not. I am not able to assess that by myself."
For me, this is the nub of your problem.
Adult learning has two key components: you know what to do, and you know whether you are doing it. The expression "walk the walk, don't talk the talk" only partially captures this, because how do you know whether you are actually walking the walk?
The answer is: awareness. YOU compare what you're trying to do with what you're actually doing. The more aware you are, the quicker you develop.
Anyone can sing. A bit. But that's not the point of this course. This course is about making us AMAZING singers! That takes time: not weeks or months, but years. We have to develop a set of skills, including good support, vowel mods, chest voice, head voice and mixed voice. When all that's in place, we can then bring these skills into our singing.
But songs are really complex, because we have to do loads of different things at the same time. If the skills aren't fully embedded, there's no realistic chance we'll be able to apply them to songs.
My suggestion is:
1. Keep working on the course. Keep building the core skills. There are no short cuts, but the more aware you are of what you're meant to be doing, and what you're actually doing, the quicker you can develop.
2. Listen to one of these songs critically. Think (in advance) about what skills you need. And then analyse the song. Identify the parts you're doing well, and the parts that need more work.
3. Post the audio and your comments. We can then help identify any additional areas where you don't have awareness.
By the way, I'm a great fan of MBTI! I'm an ESTJ.
For me, this is the nub of your problem.
Adult learning has two key components: you know what to do, and you know whether you are doing it. The expression "walk the walk, don't talk the talk" only partially captures this, because how do you know whether you are actually walking the walk?
The answer is: awareness. YOU compare what you're trying to do with what you're actually doing. The more aware you are, the quicker you develop.
Anyone can sing. A bit. But that's not the point of this course. This course is about making us AMAZING singers! That takes time: not weeks or months, but years. We have to develop a set of skills, including good support, vowel mods, chest voice, head voice and mixed voice. When all that's in place, we can then bring these skills into our singing.
But songs are really complex, because we have to do loads of different things at the same time. If the skills aren't fully embedded, there's no realistic chance we'll be able to apply them to songs.
My suggestion is:
1. Keep working on the course. Keep building the core skills. There are no short cuts, but the more aware you are of what you're meant to be doing, and what you're actually doing, the quicker you can develop.
2. Listen to one of these songs critically. Think (in advance) about what skills you need. And then analyse the song. Identify the parts you're doing well, and the parts that need more work.
3. Post the audio and your comments. We can then help identify any additional areas where you don't have awareness.
By the way, I'm a great fan of MBTI! I'm an ESTJ.
charlie_v
2 ·