Middle C is C4. The note before middle C is B3. The octave numbers increment on the C's. Tenor High C is C5, the next one up from middle C.
I'm glad some of those suggestions are working for you, Ray. Sounds like you're making progress. Working though problem sections and doing them until the issues begin to resolve is a good way to focus your practice time and make the most of it, as long as you aren't straining.
Good job on starting to make headway on connecting at your bridge.
@Highmtn: The problem is that I cannot tell what "middle C" is on this keyboard... It can shift octaves, and I THINK the octave that it is in by default is one octave higher , so "middle C" is actually one C lower on the keyboard... I think... But thanks for clearing up that middle C is C4... now I just have to make sure which C is "middle" on this thing...
@ragnar, @Highmtn: Hahaha... I actually tried to find one of these, but couldn't find one like this!! I guess I looked in the wrong place!
Thanks!
Oh, and as I suspected, my Middle C is actually one (edit) higher on this keyboard than what might be "normal"... in my opinion... unless I shift it down one octave!
(sorry if this should be in a different category... was not sure where else to put it)
I came up with a question / concern tonight when practicing...
After warming up, and working on the "lightweight" scales up and down over my passagio, I was feeling pretty good, quite relaxed and my neck and throat/vocal cords did not feel tired much at all... really felt pretty good.
However, the changes that I'm feeling (which I THINK are good) in my voice (more open throat, less tongue "closure" and tightening to control sound), made it so that when I sang a couple songs, I was having a REALLY hard time hitting notes, and my pitch was not very good at all in my opinion...
Is this a normal "transition" to be hitting, while changing how I'm singing, or am I doing something wrong still?
It all "feels" good... in fact, I'm sure it feels better "fatigue-wise", but the pitch has suffered badly thus far...
Should I be finding a "happy medium" in there somewhere?
I think you are probably experiencing "the change"... : ^ )
You see, you've relied on whatever worked for you in the past, right or wrong.
You don't really know quite yet, how to confidently operate your vocal mechanism without relying on your old ways. But to keep going, you need to keep going. You may have some days where you're a little bit lost, because your brain hasn't quite sorted out how you're supposed to sing yet. Neither has your body, for that matter.
You're kind of like someone who has started to cross an ice-cold stream, by balancing first on one rock, then stepping further out into the middle of the stream to yet another rock that maybe shifts a little when you start to put your weight on it. Then you notice that the stream seems a little deeper than you realized, and the current is moving a little faster than you thought before, and, and... whoah!!!!!
On the other side of the stream is your future new voice. It's trained and solid. Great range, dynamic, just what you've always wanted. Back there, behind you, is your old voice, the one that made you want a better voice in the first place.
You won't have command of your new voice until you've gotten across the rest of the rocks that will get you to the other side. If you're not careful, you might get wetter and colder than you would prefer while you're wavering in the middle. It's best to continue to let go of things you know aren't good for you in the long term and invest in getting through the transitional period with the least amount of delay to get to the other side. There may be wobbles as you step to one stone and then another. You could slip a couple of times... It's best to keep moving forward and to do your best to maintain your balance.
Some singers cling to their old ways and then wonder why they can hit notes easily in their exercises, but can't in their songs. That would be because they are automatically going into their old locked-in routines and methods and singing exactly the same as before, and not employing their training at all.
Some of the training "rubs off" and they hit higher notes in their songs, but in general, they are not actually crossing over to the other side. They are stuck with their security blanket, pinching down to get high notes, oversinging, straining, etc...
You DO need to work on YOUR songs and bring the KTVA techniques INTO your songs. Work them one-by-one, line-by-line, especially the ones that have always been a challenge to you. Use support, keep your throat open. Maintain ribcage expansion, and keep your sights on the other side when you start having self-doubts and reaching for your blankie.
Transitioning is not always the most secure feeling, because we fear change, yet we WANT change. Keep your eyes on the prize.
This is better. More legato. Initially you kind of go la ha ah ah ah ah ah. See if you can shake off that "h". It's not a big deal, but it will help smooth your scales even more.
There's still a little bit too much segmentation to the scales that should be smoothed together. I actually would rather these notes slide than segment.
The quality of your voice is very good. Your bridges are improving.
The thing with the segmented notes is that one of the goals in open throat singing is to keep the notes contiguous as much as possible. We de-emphasize the consonants so that they don't close down the vocal tract with pauses. We want to keep the air flowing as constantly as possible and not shut down the vowels to the extent that we can do this. Otherwise, we are constantly having to open up the vocal tract over and over again. By stringing the notes together like a string of pearls rather than separate objects in time, we help to maintain the open throat with a lot less work.
So try to think of these scales and songs as OneLongNote that has many facets to it. Try to not accent the onset of each individual note, either. Again, we want this to be smooth and as continuous (airflow-wise) as possible. Try to make the difference in the notes be purely pitch landing zone differences in a continuous, uninterrupted stream of air.
On your EE, up high, don't forget to go to E-A like eight. That will help you to get through the passagio without breaking.
I'm not hearing you sound flat.
Something just occurred to me about 23 minutes into listening to this. You're doing this to the Piano version of the exercises. Can you practice this to the ones that have just Ken and him playing chords or change the left/right balance to eliminate or minimize the piano? Your pulsing on the individual notes sounds just exactly like the attack on the staccato piano track. If you can turn off the piano track you might not sing this nearly so staccato, and that might help you to become much more legato.
In fact, later when you are playing single piano notes, you seem to be less pulsing.
SO, I think you still need to get more legato, less staccato. Smooth those notes into a less choppy continuum.
Again, it's your choice regarding Volume 3. I think you'll do well once you've got the flow of the notes hammering less and flowing more. You've done a lot of good work since your last submission.
Very good. I will pay close attention to all of this and do the workouts to Ken's voice, and I bet you're right that I'm picking up the staccato of the piano with my mimicking abilities; that is a really good insight. Thanks a million.
I will work on this and in a week or so you'll get another fine-tuned demo. I appreciate you holding my horses because I'm completely happy doing these workouts at least twice a day back to back, (sometimes 4 when I have time) and never get tired of it. I feel slight improvements each and every day. Volume 3 will be there when you say go.
Ok here's another shot at it. I ended up recording to the piano track just because it flows a little smoother without Ken's suggestions in there, but I really tried to be more legato so see what you think. After the EE I did a little demo thing with a question for you.
Good job on the legato, and the vowel modifications. Try to resist the tendency to add the "h's" in the beginning scales down low and do the pure vowel, AH or AA instead of hAH or hAA. You drop the "h" after you get a few steps up the scale, so just use that same "h-less" onset in the beginning scales.
Continue to work on that pressure regulation up in the passagios. It's a fine adjustment, but the larynx is still clicking into place a little suddenly a few times.
It's interesting that you start many of your EE's with an NG. See if you can do straight "EE" onsets. If that's too squared-off, then the way to round them a bit on the onset is to do a short "A" as in SAY at the front of the EE. The shorter the better on the initial "A" of your A-EE.
I hope you're not frustrated that I hear more correctable items. Each time I spend 30 minutes listening to you, I'm bound to notice something!
Your question about a break up high has to do with registration adjustments up around C5-E5. It's the same thing that happens at the lower passagio, where the thinning of the cords requires pressure and positional adjustments to keep phonation happening. You're using a little too much air pressure and weight when you get there, so it's clicking into place. Seems like perhaps your secondo passagio is around C5 or so.
Back off and work that just like you would a passagio down lower. Experiment with the pressure. The more you gently work that area, the less of a break you will have there, as long as you don't overpressure it. As you get into the higher notes you haven't accessed much before, you will need to give these notes some time to grow a little bit. Don't lean into them yet and don't get into too much of a hurry.
Speaking of being in a hurry, you can take my suggestions for this demo and move on to volume 3 or see if I hear any more notable nuances next time.
Excellent. I don't mind you broadening your critique at all; I value your thoughtful comments. I will work on the upper passagio lighter and smooth that out some more before moving on, and pay attention to the way I'm doing NG prior to the EE's since I know how much Ken stresses that eliminating the yodel is one of the most important things in Vol 2, and it's just an (un)awareness thing with the NG. I'll get another round off to you in a week or so!
Sounding good. Improvements in all areas. Some places where the passagio needs less pressure to smooth it out. You got rid of the NG's on the EE's and the "H's" where they weren't needed... A little Squeak on one of the EE's. Overall you are more legato, you should still continue to move in that direction. You're still using the piano tracks and I think that may be an influence there.
I just saw this. I don't know why I missed it earlier.
Your voice is sounding really good on this one. Way to go, friend.
Unsolicited feedback: on lines with a little run on the end, where you sing "news" as new-hoo-hooos, take a little more breath and just extend the line so you won't need to put those "h's" in there. It sounds much more pro to sing "new-ooo-ooos". We tend to want to push those embellishments out with an "h" or even just a push of accented air, but the best way to do it is with just a nice, continuous, long, even note that varies in pitch at the tail end. Leave those added consonants and accents out. Try it. I think you'll like it.
Nice song. Nice sound. I see you're having lots of fun with your new mixer. This is a good quality demo, my friend. Your voice is sounding nice, as well. Very present in the mix. I wish everyone's demos could be this easy to listen to and hear the voice.
Sounds really good, Johan! I like the sound of that mic, too!
You're NAILING this song! You certainly sound like you've really been doing your workouts! Good for You! If Chris should happen to lose his voice, he should call on you to sit in for him at his concerts!
Much appreciated, Bob! I have had some set backs along the way, but I'm determined to see this program through and see what my voice is truly capable of (without being completely ripped to shreds)
I'm somewhat more comfortable with sitting and singing now, but I still have moments when I lose some support. Either I get too comfortable or I'm focusing on remembering the next set of lyrics - recall which vowels in the next phrase need to be modified etc, etc... There are a lot of things to remember, but I'm sure anyone who has passed Vol 3 will say that it becomes more natural with time. I feel that things are starting to click a lot more.
If Chris loses his voice, then I guess we're all doomed haha I think it's been said that he's 'changed his ways' and is using better/healthier technique nowadays. But, I do appreciate the compliment, Bob, thank you.
Thanks Bob. I din't even realize I was putting the "h" before the ooo's until I listened to it again. Appreciate the suggestion. Still working on stretching the chest voice _ Eric Carmen's " All By Myself" - http://www.singsnap.com/karaoke/r/ac782f87d Wasn't too long ago that hitting Gs and A flats was just a dream.
Some feedback on this one. The "I" vowel as in Hi is used in this song ( BY MY) and can create difficulties up high. It's actually a diphthong, and consists of two consecutive vowels, Ah, and EE one right after the other. It's effective to sing it as an AH. Maintaining the Ah you can keep the vocal tract open throughout Ah-ll B-Ah M-Ah Sehlf if you lean a little more towards the Ah vowel through those phrases.
You should be feeling pretty good about your voice these days!
Even though I've been working alot on the "little boy voice" Ken talks about on Vol 2, I still feel unless I push hard it sounds TOO little and thin. I feel like I'm using proper technique; able to sing like this for a full 4 hour gig, no throat pain and feel like I have good support...but I want to get my vocals (eventually...I know it will take years) to a Ritchie Kotzen/ Bruce Dickenson level.
How and When do you know when you are ready to safely push your range that octave + to become your more "normal" range without damaging yourself? Or do you just push a little each day until you stretch it enough? I try and push but find I get my old bad habits and get throat soreness, etc. Thanks alot!
You just keep working the program. Your voice will continue to grow. Eventually it will mature into a more smoky, woodsy sound if that's where you want to take your voice. It takes a lot of stamina, strength, and a lot of support.
Regarding your demo, I would say that increased support is one thing that will help you to reach many of your goals you mentioned that you are seeking. And you do gently stretch a little more each day, but you must remember to stretch but not strain.
I notice that you are listed here on the forums as "Member". If you have purchased a KTVA product, such as Volume 1 or the PRO Bundle, you should copy and paste a copy of your KTVA Purchase receipt into an email to ktvaforums@gmail.com and request an upgrade in your forums status.
Members can only see a small part of the KTVA forums. There are more student videos and many forum posts that are for students only. You should utilize the additional resources available to you.
Ok I'll do that..I've purchased 1 and 2, (buying 1 at a time as my skill warrants) it is very helpful to see more questions (most of mine are answered in others' questions). Thanks.
You've been away for a while. So what's with the new setting? And that Lighting?
You're sounding good as usual.
All the Best!
Bob
Haha thanks Bob. There have been some major changes going on, just moved continents and started college. I'll be telling details in my 100th video coming up. I'm excited about it!
I am new to this forum, just beginning to really train my voice (I am an amateur singer, I don't really know my true voice type either).
Some people tell me I'm a contralto, others refrain from using terms, as my resonance isn't fully developed yet, neither is my support. That is why I'll appreciate your comments on my raw singing
This is a video of my singing, covering Red Line Chemistry's "The One Thing".
I'm 45 and don't really sing, but I've always wanted to be able to sing just for my own personal satisfaction. Got the program on May 13th and started practicing in my car to and from work (only time I have right now) started to notice a difference so I downloaded "Faithfully" sound track and recorded a little bit on June 4th (up thru "along the wire"). Kept practicing in the car, then things seemed to start getting easier so I recorded another section of the song on June 22nd using the same USB mic on my computer, but I held a paper towel in front of the mic to cut down on the "pop".
I plan to keep recording new parts of the song every few weeks as I progress so that hopefully I can hit the high parts at the end of the song when I'm done. When I'm finished, I'll hopefully be able to hear steady progress as I play through the entire song.
Still a long way to go, but I'm excited to continue on with the program
I've been practicing KTVA for 3 years and still feel like improving - slowly :
This is AWESOME!!! wow...... GREAT job man !!!! How did you progress through the volumes ?? like how much time did it take you to go through them ? and did you consider yourself talented prior to getting started with the KTVA course ?
Welcome to the KTVA Forums! Your voice sounds really good. You could use a little more support, but your pitch is good, and your style is decent. The keyboard is just a little loud for the level of your voice for the purposes of vocal feedback. It covers your voice just a bit much.
So I'm about two months in, been working mostly on volume 1, practice 5-7 times a week. I've noticed a HUGE increase in stamina and ability to sing higher, longer. I don't think my tone has changed much yet, unfortunately. I decided to record a handful of songs that were historically hard for me to sing (except for 2 of them, "Rude" and "Chasing Cars"). This was after about 1 1/2 hours (total) of practice and singing about 12 songs completely. The good news for me is that this would have been impossible for me to do two months ago! I'd have worn out my voice singing all these songs (quite high for me), and then the recordings. I'm barely tired at all after all this!
I think my support is a little better...??? pitch is mostly good, I think, a few misses here and there. Tone still not so much.
Listen to any you wish to listen to, and I'd appreciate input, suggestions, etc. Thx!
It's good to hear a progress demo from you. Overall, your voice is getting stronger and you are gaining range.
I'd like to hear more support in your voice, and I'd really like to hear you brighten it up a lot.
Go back to the It's the LAH!!! AHH!!! demonstration. Listen to how bright and pingy Ken makes that sound. That's the tone you want. From your post it sounds like maybe you're dabbling in Volume 2 as well, these days? Ken introduces MASK in Volume 2, so you can start bringing that into your tone. You have to use a little bit of airflow into the front of the nasal area. Not honky nasal, but enough to add a little bit of "ring" to your voice. You've got the bottom end covered. Now keep that throat open and add some more ping and ring. Going back to the support, I'd like to hear you lean into the sound a little more, too. Not all the time, but when the song calls for it, you seem to be holding back a little from ever revving your engine much. Put a few more RPM's on it here and there, just to humor me.
Nice job on those G#4's. There are several G#4's in those songs. I thought you stepped up to the plate the best on Long Way From Home. You seemed to have things under control with confidence. You hit a C#5 and also a few B4's in that one. Your support seemed strongest in that song.
Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. Project the sound at the hard surfaces: The Hard palate and front teeth, and concentrating on projecting a bit of the sound beyond the tip and bridge of your nose and in the sinuses in your cheeks around the nose and eyes.
If it sounds too bright, it's just about right. You can always back it off if you should go too far.
Good job. You're right on track. Strong Support is just around the corner for you. Keep up the diligent practice!
Thanks Bob! I'll go through all of this and work on it. I've watched and gone through some of volume 2, but have been mostly working on volume 1 for practicing/building up stamina and strength. Only watched and tried to learn some stuff from volume 2, but not a lot yet. I was afraid that I was already too bright... interesting... I also thought that maybe I was "leaning" too much, too!
Seems that some days are better than others for getting sound up and into my sinuses and cheeks... I get congested and "plug up" after I sing a lot, possibly from nasal surgery years ago (was rear-ended by someone going about 50, broke my nose on my steering wheel after hitting the car in front of me). Some days it does not do that.
Thanks very much for spending the time to listen and comment! I appreciate it very much!
@Highmtn: OK, so I have to say a big "Thank you" to you Bob, for the comment above, most specifically the "Project the sound at the hard surfaces: The Hard palate and front teeth, and concentrating on projecting a bit of the sound beyond the tip and bridge of your nose..." I specifically focused on moving up and forward with my souund tonight when warming up and practicing... to the point that I could FEEL it up there!
Wow!! I really think I was singing way too far back in my throat, even though I "thought" I was moving up into my sinuses, I obviously wasn't, I was just moving up the BACK of my throat, using my throat to adjust my notes... I think...
I went through the entire volume one warmups easier than ever before, and ALMOST with no speed bump, too! THEN, I did some more warmup tracks, and then decided to record a bunch of songs again. I struggled a lot at first, as I am not used to singing with my voice that far "up and front", but I noticed a few things.
I needed MUCH less breath to sing than before.
It was much easier to slide up and down in notes much quicker than before.
It was VERY difficult at first to sing this way, as my mouth and throat were not used to that feeling, BUT... by the time I got to about my 5th, 6th, 7th songs, I was beginning to settle into it, and it sounded much better even to me, and I NEVER like my sound!
It will take me a while to "wrap my head (and voice) around this new thing", but I'm very excited to re-work what I've been doing around it!
I have NEVER been able to get through "Love Runs Out" in the original key that OneRepublic did it in (best I could do was a half-step down, ONCE)... and I sang the entire song, and then sang several more!
Again, THANKS for replying to my post, it was a HUGE help to me!
I will work on this for a while, and when I feel I've got a better grasp on it, I'll post more samples for critique...
Great, Ray. Like I say: Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. The resounding helps to do part of the work for us. Certain notes and tones and spaces attain resonance. High-frequency E.Q. in the voice itself helps to accommodate higher-frequency notes from our cords. Don't be surprised if this is hard to get a grip on at first. It can be fleeting. Grab it now, while it's fresh in your mind!
Sometimes I concentrate on trying to feel a buzz on the hard palate and teeth and the cartilages in my nose... I'll even try to feel BOTH sides of the hard palate buzz at once. The turbinates inside the nose... Don't ask me how to do that. It's just mental images, but if that works for you, then it works. These are all important parts of your instrument.
Ken sometimes talks about bringing the sound up and around like a giant "C" ringing in the head. I've also heard him say he imagines a target high in the back of his head, off of which a bank shot rings the sound around and up to the front. (again, imagery, but how else can things like that be described, when we just experience them as feelings or impressions. We latch on to these feelings and buzzes and try to embed them for later recall and use when needed.
Welcome to the KTVA Forums! Your voice sounds really good. You could use a little more support, but your pitch is good, and your style is decent. The keyboard is just a little loud for the level of your voice for the purposes of vocal feedback. It covers your voice just a bit much.
Keep working your voice. You have a great start.
Bob
Thank you very much, Bob! I will be developing, that's for sure!
I have this song in my vocal practice book, too, as a Kenny Rogers tune.
Your vocal tone is really buttery-smooth, and I really like your sound. You sing your songs convincingly, with at lot of feeling. It's a treat to hear you.
I do have some critique details for you, if you don't mind.
You had a little trouble with the very first note, probably because it's a really low note right out of the gate, a G3.
I always tell people, make sure you get the first note (and the entire first line) right any time you're recording.
If I'm having trouble with my first note, I'll start over no matter how many times I have to in order to get it right.
No sense in keeping going if I've started out with a miscue.
Remember in your last demo I mentioned getting rid of "h's" in syllables and runs? On "Alright" you sing All-ri-hi-hite. So you're adding h's that aren't there. Also the "I" sound as in "I am here" is a diphthong, so it is two vowels, one after the other of "AH and EE" so the best way when singing is to dwell on the AH and close the end with a super-quick ee just before ending on a soft "t". So you would (on a good long breath) sing AHL-(and do your vocal run on a contiguous rAH followed by a quick -eet )
The consonant "t" in the word "late" causes your vocal tract to shut down, and you have to re-open it afterwards. It is best to de-emphasize consonants when singing in order to dwell more on the vowels. I would recommend you just lightly graze over that "t" so you don't have to say late-tat-night. There's that "I" diphthong again, too. "Leh-dAA-dNAH-eet" is a more contiguous version of that part, with a very light "d" substituting for the "t's" and the AH-ee replacing the "I" of "night".
On the last chorus you seemed to be getting low on support on "faith in me".
Sounds a little like I'm being overly-critical of your song, but I'm mentioning these items just as a matter of recommendation. They're techniques that Ken includes in the course, so I'm always listening for those sorts of things in demos. I am sincere when I tell you that I'm always looking forward to hearing your demos when I see you've posted. You are sounding really good, and I want to help you with some of the finishing touches. I apologize if I'm taking the wind out of your sails. That's not my intent.
Thanks again. I think because John sings through his nose so much he tends to lean towards the ee vowel. It's so hard to hear tunes in a different way.
More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent.
As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program.
I've been practicing KTVA for 3 years and still feel like improving - slowly :
This is AWESOME!!! wow...... GREAT job man !!!! How did you progress through the volumes ?? like how much time did it take you to go through them ? and did you consider yourself talented prior to getting started with the KTVA course ?
More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent.
As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program.
Thanks.
Bob
Hi Bob, thanks for your help, I'll work on my support like a horse and then I'll post some lah scales!
@Bluedevils , thanks for replying man you truly motivated me to get back in the game!! Your vocals are astounding.... marvelous dude! You abuse vibrato a bit :P but it sounds sick! Keep it up !
@highmtn here is a lah demo. i did lah exercise volume one twice thru after some warm up. i can hear it starts out ok. but ill let you be your own judge. which is better first or second. i did something different on second scale.
Try again posting it, and look to see your posting when you save it. If the link is missing, do it again, and this time paste in your link two times, one right over the other. Sometimes the forums will not display a link or something you copy unless you put it in twice.
@stevek you are closing down to your vowel modifications too early try and stay on Ah for longer until you feel that you need a new vowel modification try and keep it really Ah. The second version is slightly better sounds like you are getting a brighter tone to me cutting back the air more and a little more Ah.
Regardless of pitch, it's your support dude. There's far to much air in the sound. You also need way more cord closure. Support is all about cutting back the air. You can push down as hard as you want but without the cutting back of air, all you're doing is working the abs. You sound like you are pushing air out rather than holding it in. If I was your personal teacher i would say you need to start with easier songs. This is the equivalent of jumping into 'Eruption' by Van Halen, without being able to get through 'Good Riddance' by Greenday if you were a guitarist.
@streeter thx for your opinion. Your right I'm trying to hard. I seem to lose control when I'm really pushing my abs. I'm expecting @highmtn to say never do that again!!! Slow down steve.
You are still struggling to grasp how to support. Streeter is right that you are still punching out too much air, and blasting on all of the accents. Think of support as more of a shock absorber for your cords. You don't want to hit them that hard with the air.
You're having pitch issues, too, Steve. I think we may have talked about doing the Basic Pitch Program in the past. Did you do that? You've been watching @kaulfers and his quest to conquer the pitch monster. He's really made strides. If you haven't watched all of his videos of training on pitch, you should.
Your tone should be brighter than I'm hearing on these demos. Brighter tone is easier to discern pitch.
I agree with marc that the second scales sound better. Did you warm up your voice before recording this? The second one is better. In the first scale you slide from note-to-note. The second scale is better in the fact that you land on each note instead of sliding from note-to-note. Your pitch is more accurate in the second scale as well.
The pitch issue is important to zero in on. Pitch is non-negotiable. Then support. Correct Support helps pitch to be more consistent.
You can do this, dude, I know you can. I've heard you get really close before.
@highmtn I'm pretty sure I know what's happening. But something doesn't feel right maybe its just I'm not used to the right feeling. I'll post another lah exercise soon.
@stevek keep plugging away at it you will get better bit by bit there are a lot of things to juggle and get your head around but perseverance will pay off. Pick something like pitch or vowel mods or support and focus on it for a while and then move on to something else.
I'm new here and would like some feedback on my LAH. I was going to wait a couple more weeks but I'm kind of stuck. Right now, I'm considered an alto but hope to really broaden my range. I'm not sure if I have the correct "brassiness" going on or not. I have two links. I'd like to know which sounds better:
I know we're supposed to do the workouts twice - once lightly to practice bridging smoothly without the yodel, and then again to stretch chest. My problem I think is that I don't know how to stretch chest, I automatically go into head voice (I think). I'm kind of confused where my range is at because with applying all the techniques (especially opening up the throat more), I feel like the sound/range of my voice has changed.
Both of these demos sound pretty good. The second one is brighter. You have trouble singing the lowest notes of the lowest scales, but that's OK. Those notes are kind of below your range.
You don't seem to have any trouble with the upper range notes, and those are right on pitch.
You also are not having much trouble bridging into head voice. I think you're going to head voice at about G#4.
The way to stretch your chest voice is to lean into the sound with a little more volume and air pressure... but not too much. Gently avoid going into head voice. Like I said, I hear you going into head by around G#4, so you should first try to keep your chest resonance going up to A4, then if that works out, to Bb4, then B4, etc. As an alto, you should be able eventually to go past D5 or so in chest voice, but that's on down the road.
You do need to learn to recognize the different feeling of chest vs head so you will know to keep your voice in chest a little longer. If you can get to a piano, even a virtual one on your computer, listen to yourself and feel the feelings in your voice as you sing this same scale, very slowly. Feel what's happening between around F#4 and A4. That's where you are shifting resonance. That's the area you'll be working with to stretch your chest voice initially.
OK! @highmtn this is me going at it bright to a song i don't know all the words to. Also my son is in background noisey noisey. again this is just for demo purposes not a real take. but feedback is welcome.
keeping it real.... people can learn even with kids in the house.
@highmtn sorry its private I can't change it from my mobile app it won't let me. Will change when I get off work. Or soon as I can. Will post I fixed it when I do. Thx
More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent.
As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program.
Thanks.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I've tried to work on my support and posted some Laah-Scales. Can you check it out? http://youtu.be/qC-1wYadPH4 I also re-recorded the vocals of that song after working on my support for a few days (right after the laaahs). In the second chorus there is this ugly squealy break. I've been having this quite frequently since I've been working on support. I wonder whether it's from pushing harder on my diaphragm/Abdominal muscles.
@heres another song. i have a tendency to support a note with lots of strength but there again i still try and push out the sound. this is me trying to slow down my breath / hold back. still airy for song.
Comments
@rcrosier,
Middle C is C4. The note before middle C is B3. The octave numbers increment on the C's. Tenor High C is C5, the next one up from middle C.
I'm glad some of those suggestions are working for you, Ray. Sounds like you're making progress. Working though problem sections and doing them until the issues begin to resolve is a good way to focus your practice time and make the most of it, as long as you aren't straining.
Good job on starting to make headway on connecting at your bridge.
Bob
Ha, ha! Thanks, @ragnar.
There you go, @rcrosier! Middle C as provided by ragnar. Compare on your keyboard and put a little note-to-self there.
@rcrosier,
So, in the case of Your Keyboard, Middle C isn't in the MIDDLE!
: ^ )
And it's not the 4th C, either!
Bob
@rcrosier,
I think you are probably experiencing "the change"... : ^ )
You see, you've relied on whatever worked for you in the past, right or wrong.
You don't really know quite yet, how to confidently operate your vocal mechanism without relying on your old ways. But to keep going, you need to keep going. You may have some days where you're a little bit lost, because your brain hasn't quite sorted out how you're supposed to sing yet. Neither has your body, for that matter.
You're kind of like someone who has started to cross an ice-cold stream, by balancing first on one rock, then stepping further out into the middle of the stream to yet another rock that maybe shifts a little when you start to put your weight on it. Then you notice that the stream seems a little deeper than you realized, and the current is moving a little faster than you thought before, and, and... whoah!!!!!
On the other side of the stream is your future new voice. It's trained and solid. Great range, dynamic, just what you've always wanted. Back there, behind you, is your old voice, the one that made you want a better voice in the first place.
You won't have command of your new voice until you've gotten across the rest of the rocks that will get you to the other side. If you're not careful, you might get wetter and colder than you would prefer while you're wavering in the middle. It's best to continue to let go of things you know aren't good for you in the long term and invest in getting through the transitional period with the least amount of delay to get to the other side. There may be wobbles as you step to one stone and then another. You could slip a couple of times... It's best to keep moving forward and to do your best to maintain your balance.
Some singers cling to their old ways and then wonder why they can hit notes easily in their exercises, but can't in their songs. That would be because they are automatically going into their old locked-in routines and methods and singing exactly the same as before, and not employing their training at all.
Some of the training "rubs off" and they hit higher notes in their songs, but in general, they are not actually crossing over to the other side. They are stuck with their security blanket, pinching down to get high notes, oversinging, straining, etc...
You DO need to work on YOUR songs and bring the KTVA techniques INTO your songs. Work them one-by-one, line-by-line, especially the ones that have always been a challenge to you. Use support, keep your throat open. Maintain ribcage expansion, and keep your sights on the other side when you start having self-doubts and reaching for your blankie.
Transitioning is not always the most secure feeling, because we fear change, yet we WANT change. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Bob
Whose channel is it? What a mashup... There for a while, I'm not so sure you were both singing the same verse! Must've been Wednesday somewhere...
Is this what always happens during your rare live performances?
Whew!
@earwigger,
This is better. More legato. Initially you kind of go la ha ah ah ah ah ah. See if you can shake off that "h". It's not a big deal, but it will help smooth your scales even more.
There's still a little bit too much segmentation to the scales that should be smoothed together. I actually would rather these notes slide than segment.
The quality of your voice is very good. Your bridges are improving.
The thing with the segmented notes is that one of the goals in open throat singing is to keep the notes contiguous as much as possible. We de-emphasize the consonants so that they don't close down the vocal tract with pauses. We want to keep the air flowing as constantly as possible and not shut down the vowels to the extent that we can do this. Otherwise, we are constantly having to open up the vocal tract over and over again. By stringing the notes together like a string of pearls rather than separate objects in time, we help to maintain the open throat with a lot less work.
So try to think of these scales and songs as OneLongNote that has many facets to it. Try to not accent the onset of each individual note, either. Again, we want this to be smooth and as continuous (airflow-wise) as possible. Try to make the difference in the notes be purely pitch landing zone differences in a continuous, uninterrupted stream of air.
On your EE, up high, don't forget to go to E-A like eight. That will help you to get through the passagio without breaking.
I'm not hearing you sound flat.
Something just occurred to me about 23 minutes into listening to this. You're doing this to the Piano version of the exercises. Can you practice this to the ones that have just Ken and him playing chords or change the left/right balance to eliminate or minimize the piano? Your pulsing on the individual notes sounds just exactly like the attack on the staccato piano track. If you can turn off the piano track you might not sing this nearly so staccato, and that might help you to become much more legato.
In fact, later when you are playing single piano notes, you seem to be less pulsing.
SO, I think you still need to get more legato, less staccato. Smooth those notes into a less choppy continuum.
Again, it's your choice regarding Volume 3. I think you'll do well once you've got the flow of the notes hammering less and flowing more. You've done a lot of good work since your last submission.
All the Best!
Bob
@earwigger
Erik,
I feel the same way about doing the workouts. I look forward to them every day!
Enjoy your workouts and talk to you when you post again.
Bob
Good job on the legato, and the vowel modifications. Try to resist the tendency to add the "h's" in the beginning scales down low and do the pure vowel, AH or AA instead of hAH or hAA. You drop the "h" after you get a few steps up the scale, so just use that same "h-less" onset in the beginning scales.
Continue to work on that pressure regulation up in the passagios. It's a fine adjustment, but the larynx is still clicking into place a little suddenly a few times.
It's interesting that you start many of your EE's with an NG. See if you can do straight "EE" onsets. If that's too squared-off, then the way to round them a bit on the onset is to do a short "A" as in SAY at the front of the EE. The shorter the better on the initial "A" of your A-EE.
I hope you're not frustrated that I hear more correctable items. Each time I spend 30 minutes listening to you, I'm bound to notice something!
Your question about a break up high has to do with registration adjustments up around C5-E5. It's the same thing that happens at the lower passagio, where the thinning of the cords requires pressure and positional adjustments to keep phonation happening. You're using a little too much air pressure and weight when you get there, so it's clicking into place. Seems like perhaps your secondo passagio is around C5 or so.
Back off and work that just like you would a passagio down lower. Experiment with the pressure. The more you gently work that area, the less of a break you will have there, as long as you don't overpressure it. As you get into the higher notes you haven't accessed much before, you will need to give these notes some time to grow a little bit. Don't lean into them yet and don't get into too much of a hurry.
Speaking of being in a hurry, you can take my suggestions for this demo and move on to volume 3 or see if I hear any more notable nuances next time.
Good job, @earwigger.
Bob
@ earwigger,
Sounding good. Improvements in all areas. Some places where the passagio needs less pressure to smooth it out. You got rid of the NG's on the EE's and the "H's" where they weren't needed... A little Squeak on one of the EE's. Overall you are more legato, you should still continue to move in that direction. You're still using the piano tracks and I think that may be an influence there.
I think you're ready to move on.
: ^ )
Bob
Here's a cover I've been working on.
Not quite Tears for Fears, not exactly Gary Jules -
...influenced by both to make a third.
No belting high notes (or anything like that) - just a song that I like. Hope you do, too!
Peace
This is the reverbnation link. It's lesser quality (320kbps - in order to meet the 8MB cut-off) but I'd boosted the final mix before posting it.
Peace
http://www.reverbnation.com/SOULSTOKED/song/21969109-new-mad-world-cover
@derrickt,
I just saw this. I don't know why I missed it earlier.
Your voice is sounding really good on this one. Way to go, friend.
Unsolicited feedback: on lines with a little run on the end, where you sing "news" as new-hoo-hooos, take a little more breath and just extend the line so you won't need to put those "h's" in there. It sounds much more pro to sing "new-ooo-ooos". We tend to want to push those embellishments out with an "h" or even just a push of accented air, but the best way to do it is with just a nice, continuous, long, even note that varies in pitch at the tail end. Leave those added consonants and accents out. Try it. I think you'll like it.
You keep getting better and better!
: ^ )
bob
@Johan_Kalevi,
Nice song. Nice sound. I see you're having lots of fun with your new mixer. This is a good quality demo, my friend. Your voice is sounding nice, as well. Very present in the mix. I wish everyone's demos could be this easy to listen to and hear the voice.
: ^ )
Bob
Hi Bob, thanks very much!
I'm definitely enjoying the new mixer - it really compliments the vocal training.
I recently made a little investment in a RODE NT2-A mic and I'm really enjoying the results so far.
This is another I've just finished recording this afternoon.
It's a little heavier :-) ...One of my favourite vocalists: Chris Cornell. If not THE favourite.
This is a song which would have given me LOTS of *pain and *trouble about 6 months ago. I've been diligently working on Vol 2 up to now.
This one's a bit scratchier as I was playing and singing at the same time rather than doing several takes like I did with the other one.
I'm really glad I bought KTVA! :-)
Peace
@Johan_Kalevi
Sounds really good, Johan! I like the sound of that mic, too!
You're NAILING this song! You certainly sound like you've really been doing your workouts! Good for You! If Chris should happen to lose his voice, he should call on you to sit in for him at his concerts!
Good work, dude!
Bob
Much appreciated, Bob! I have had some set backs along the way, but I'm determined to see this program through and see what my voice is truly capable of (without being completely ripped to shreds)
I'm somewhat more comfortable with sitting and singing now, but I still have moments when I lose some support. Either I get too comfortable or I'm focusing on remembering the next set of lyrics - recall which vowels in the next phrase need to be modified etc, etc... There are a lot of things to remember, but I'm sure anyone who has passed Vol 3 will say that it becomes more natural with time. I feel that things are starting to click a lot more.
If Chris loses his voice, then I guess we're all doomed haha I think it's been said that he's 'changed his ways' and is using better/healthier technique nowadays. But, I do appreciate the compliment, Bob, thank you.
Johan
Hey, @derrick,
Sounding good on All By Myself.
Some feedback on this one. The "I" vowel as in Hi is used in this song ( BY MY) and can create difficulties up high. It's actually a diphthong, and consists of two consecutive vowels, Ah, and EE one right after the other. It's effective to sing it as an AH. Maintaining the Ah you can keep the vocal tract open throughout Ah-ll B-Ah M-Ah Sehlf if you lean a little more towards the Ah vowel through those phrases.
You should be feeling pretty good about your voice these days!
Bob
Please check out my covers on Facebook! (https://www.facebook.com/plunkett.ben/app_178091127385)
Please give me your feedback ..Its much appreciated!
Hello, @benplunkett,
I listened to several of your demos and videos. Nice work, well recorded, well mixed, and nicely sung!
Nice to see you here!
Bob
http://www.mainemusicians.org/index.php?option=com_community&view=profile&userid=239&Itemid=792
Even though I've been working alot on the "little boy voice" Ken talks about on Vol 2, I still feel unless I push hard it sounds TOO little and thin. I feel like I'm using proper technique; able to sing like this for a full 4 hour gig, no throat pain and feel like I have good support...but I want to get my vocals (eventually...I know it will take years) to a Ritchie Kotzen/ Bruce Dickenson level.
How and When do you know when you are ready to safely push your range that octave + to become your more "normal" range without damaging yourself? Or do you just push a little each day until you stretch it enough? I try and push but find I get my old bad habits and get throat soreness, etc. Thanks alot!
@BassnVox,
You just keep working the program. Your voice will continue to grow. Eventually it will mature into a more smoky, woodsy sound if that's where you want to take your voice. It takes a lot of stamina, strength, and a lot of support.
Regarding your demo, I would say that increased support is one thing that will help you to reach many of your goals you mentioned that you are seeking. And you do gently stretch a little more each day, but you must remember to stretch but not strain.
I notice that you are listed here on the forums as "Member". If you have purchased a KTVA product, such as Volume 1 or the PRO Bundle, you should copy and paste a copy of your KTVA Purchase receipt into an email to ktvaforums@gmail.com and request an upgrade in your forums status.
Members can only see a small part of the KTVA forums. There are more student videos and many forum posts that are for students only. You should utilize the additional resources available to you.
All the Best.
Bob
@overdriveisclassy,
"Yes to challenges."
You've been away for a while. So what's with the new setting? And that Lighting?
You're sounding good as usual.
All the Best!
Bob
I am new to this forum, just beginning to really train my voice (I am an amateur singer, I don't really know my true voice type either).
Some people tell me I'm a contralto, others refrain from using terms, as my resonance isn't fully developed yet, neither is my support. That is why I'll appreciate your comments on my raw singing
This is a video of my singing, covering Red Line Chemistry's "The One Thing".
I hope you like it!
This is AWESOME!!! wow...... GREAT job man !!!!
How did you progress through the volumes ?? like how much time did it take you to go through them ?
and did you consider yourself talented prior to getting started with the KTVA course ?
@Brezeida,
Welcome to the KTVA Forums! Your voice sounds really good. You could use a little more support, but your pitch is good, and your style is decent. The keyboard is just a little loud for the level of your voice for the purposes of vocal feedback. It covers your voice just a bit much.
Keep working your voice. You have a great start.
Bob
@rcrosier,
Ray,
It's good to hear a progress demo from you. Overall, your voice is getting stronger and you are gaining range.
I'd like to hear more support in your voice, and I'd really like to hear you brighten it up a lot.
Go back to the It's the LAH!!! AHH!!! demonstration. Listen to how bright and pingy Ken makes that sound. That's the tone you want. From your post it sounds like maybe you're dabbling in Volume 2 as well, these days? Ken introduces MASK in Volume 2, so you can start bringing that into your tone. You have to use a little bit of airflow into the front of the nasal area. Not honky nasal, but enough to add a little bit of "ring" to your voice. You've got the bottom end covered. Now keep that throat open and add some more ping and ring. Going back to the support, I'd like to hear you lean into the sound a little more, too. Not all the time, but when the song calls for it, you seem to be holding back a little from ever revving your engine much. Put a few more RPM's on it here and there, just to humor me.
Nice job on those G#4's. There are several G#4's in those songs. I thought you stepped up to the plate the best on Long Way From Home. You seemed to have things under control with confidence. You hit a C#5 and also a few B4's in that one. Your support seemed strongest in that song.
Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. Project the sound at the hard surfaces: The Hard palate and front teeth, and concentrating on projecting a bit of the sound beyond the tip and bridge of your nose and in the sinuses in your cheeks around the nose and eyes.
If it sounds too bright, it's just about right. You can always back it off if you should go too far.
Good job. You're right on track. Strong Support is just around the corner for you. Keep up the diligent practice!
Bob
Great, Ray. Like I say: Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. The resounding helps to do part of the work for us. Certain notes and tones and spaces attain resonance. High-frequency E.Q. in the voice itself helps to accommodate higher-frequency notes from our cords. Don't be surprised if this is hard to get a grip on at first. It can be fleeting. Grab it now, while it's fresh in your mind!
Sometimes I concentrate on trying to feel a buzz on the hard palate and teeth and the cartilages in my nose... I'll even try to feel BOTH sides of the hard palate buzz at once. The turbinates inside the nose... Don't ask me how to do that. It's just mental images, but if that works for you, then it works. These are all important parts of your instrument.
Ken sometimes talks about bringing the sound up and around like a giant "C" ringing in the head. I've also heard him say he imagines a target high in the back of his head, off of which a bank shot rings the sound around and up to the front. (again, imagery, but how else can things like that be described, when we just experience them as feelings or impressions. We latch on to these feelings and buzzes and try to embed them for later recall and use when needed.
Bob
@overdriveisclassy,
How do you DO that? You disappeared and reappeared at the beginning of the video!
Sometimes you amaze me! And how does your voice reach the microphone across the room?
So was this the BIG ONE hundred?
"Yes to challenges."
Sounding good, bro!
: ^)
Bob
Nice job, @derrick,
I have this song in my vocal practice book, too, as a Kenny Rogers tune.
Your vocal tone is really buttery-smooth, and I really like your sound. You sing your songs convincingly, with at lot of feeling. It's a treat to hear you.
I do have some critique details for you, if you don't mind.
You had a little trouble with the very first note, probably because it's a really low note right out of the gate, a G3.
I always tell people, make sure you get the first note (and the entire first line) right any time you're recording.
If I'm having trouble with my first note, I'll start over no matter how many times I have to in order to get it right.
No sense in keeping going if I've started out with a miscue.
Remember in your last demo I mentioned getting rid of "h's" in syllables and runs? On "Alright" you sing All-ri-hi-hite. So you're adding h's that aren't there. Also the "I" sound as in "I am here" is a diphthong, so it is two vowels, one after the other of "AH and EE" so the best way when singing is to dwell on the AH and close the end with a super-quick ee just before ending on a soft "t". So you would (on a good long breath) sing AHL-(and do your vocal run on a contiguous rAH followed by a quick -eet )
The consonant "t" in the word "late" causes your vocal tract to shut down, and you have to re-open it afterwards. It is best to de-emphasize consonants when singing in order to dwell more on the vowels. I would recommend you just lightly graze over that "t" so you don't have to say late-tat-night. There's that "I" diphthong again, too. "Leh-dAA-dNAH-eet" is a more contiguous version of that part, with a very light "d" substituting for the "t's" and the AH-ee replacing the "I" of "night".
On the last chorus you seemed to be getting low on support on "faith in me".
Sounds a little like I'm being overly-critical of your song, but I'm mentioning these items just as a matter of recommendation. They're techniques that Ken includes in the course, so I'm always listening for those sorts of things in demos. I am sincere when I tell you that I'm always looking forward to hearing your demos when I see you've posted. You are sounding really good, and I want to help you with some of the finishing touches. I apologize if I'm taking the wind out of your sails. That's not my intent.
Keep up the good work!
Bob
Sounding pretty good.
I would do the Alive without the Ali-eeeeeeve. I would do that more a-lahhhhhhhhhh-iv, barely putting any "e" in except right before the "v" comes in.
"Home" does need a "little h" on it. Not much, but just a tiny, little h. I oversteered you on that one.
This is sounding more and more polished every time.
Bob
Thanks Bob! A magician musician never reveals his secrets. And that was number 98, this next one is 99... and next week is 100! I better make it good!
@overdriveisclassy,
Yes To Challenges.
Nice job, once again, but come on. You can trust US with your magic secrets... we won't divulge them...MUCH!
Nice harmonies, good groove, and your golden voice, as always, right on the money.
So now we're waiting on the one after Ninety-Nine.
I can't wait.
Bob
I'm recording some songs, here is a snippet, without any tuning or advanced processing on the lead vocal.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x3nuse4ord0zb54/My Soul Snippet.mp3?dl=0
I'm not quite happy with the singing yet. Does anyone have suggestions? I'm currently in stage 2. Do you think I'm ready to start stage 3?
Thanks, Ben
@bberg,
More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent.
As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program.
Thanks.
Bob
thanks for your help, I'll work on my support like a horse and then I'll post some lah scales!
Ben
Your vocals are astounding.... marvelous dude!
You abuse vibrato a bit :P but it sounds sick!
Keep it up !
@SteveK, your link isn't there in your posting.
Try again posting it, and look to see your posting when you save it. If the link is missing, do it again, and this time paste in your link two times, one right over the other. Sometimes the forums will not display a link or something you copy unless you put it in twice.
Thanks.
Bob
http://m.soundcloud.com/steven-kindig/lah110214
Try this again @highmtn
Steve,
Never do that again!!! Slow down Steve.
Bob
Haha,
Just having fun, Steve (in the post above).
You are still struggling to grasp how to support. Streeter is right that you are still punching out too much air, and blasting on all of the accents. Think of support as more of a shock absorber for your cords. You don't want to hit them that hard with the air.
You're having pitch issues, too, Steve. I think we may have talked about doing the Basic Pitch Program in the past. Did you do that? You've been watching @kaulfers and his quest to conquer the pitch monster. He's really made strides. If you haven't watched all of his videos of training on pitch, you should.
Your tone should be brighter than I'm hearing on these demos. Brighter tone is easier to discern pitch.
I agree with marc that the second scales sound better. Did you warm up your voice before recording this? The second one is better. In the first scale you slide from note-to-note. The second scale is better in the fact that you land on each note instead of sliding from note-to-note. Your pitch is more accurate in the second scale as well.
The pitch issue is important to zero in on. Pitch is non-negotiable. Then support. Correct Support helps pitch to be more consistent.
You can do this, dude, I know you can. I've heard you get really close before.
Bob
@rlspadz,
Both of these demos sound pretty good. The second one is brighter. You have trouble singing the lowest notes of the lowest scales, but that's OK. Those notes are kind of below your range.
You don't seem to have any trouble with the upper range notes, and those are right on pitch.
You also are not having much trouble bridging into head voice. I think you're going to head voice at about G#4.
The way to stretch your chest voice is to lean into the sound with a little more volume and air pressure... but not too much. Gently avoid going into head voice. Like I said, I hear you going into head by around G#4, so you should first try to keep your chest resonance going up to A4, then if that works out, to Bb4, then B4, etc. As an alto, you should be able eventually to go past D5 or so in chest voice, but that's on down the road.
You do need to learn to recognize the different feeling of chest vs head so you will know to keep your voice in chest a little longer. If you can get to a piano, even a virtual one on your computer, listen to yourself and feel the feelings in your voice as you sing this same scale, very slowly. Feel what's happening between around F#4 and A4. That's where you are shifting resonance. That's the area you'll be working with to stretch your chest voice initially.
Bob
keeping it real.... people can learn even with kids in the house.
Steve
Steve,
The link isn't working.
I'm getting this message:
Sorry! We can't find that track.
Did you try to access a private track, but were not logged in?
Maybe the track has been removed.
Steve
I've tried to work on my support and posted some Laah-Scales. Can you check it out?
Thanx for your ears!
Ben
Beth by Kiss
thx for listening