Middle C is C4. The note before middle C is B3. The octave numbers increment on the C's. Tenor High C is C5, the next one up from middle C.
I'm glad some of those suggestions are working for you, Ray. Sounds like you're making progress. Working though problem sections and doing them until the issues begin to resolve is a good way to focus your practice time and make the most of it, as long as you aren't straining.
Good job on starting to make headway on connecting at your bridge.
Ha, ha! Thanks, @ragnar.
There you go, @rcrosier! Middle C as provided by ragnar. Compare on your keyboard and put a little note-to-self there.
So, in the case of Your Keyboard, Middle C isn't in the MIDDLE!
: ^ )
And it's not the 4th C, either!
I think you are probably experiencing "the change"... : ^ )
You see, you've relied on whatever worked for you in the past, right or wrong.
You don't really know quite yet, how to confidently operate your vocal mechanism without relying on your old ways. But to keep going, you need to keep going. You may have some days where you're a little bit lost, because your brain hasn't quite sorted out how you're supposed to sing yet. Neither has your body, for that matter.
You're kind of like someone who has started to cross an ice-cold stream, by balancing first on one rock, then stepping further out into the middle of the stream to yet another rock that maybe shifts a little when you start to put your weight on it. Then you notice that the stream seems a little deeper than you realized, and the current is moving a little faster than you thought before, and, and... whoah!!!!!
On the other side of the stream is your future new voice. It's trained and solid. Great range, dynamic, just what you've always wanted. Back there, behind you, is your old voice, the one that made you want a better voice in the first place.
You won't have command of your new voice until you've gotten across the rest of the rocks that will get you to the other side. If you're not careful, you might get wetter and colder than you would prefer while you're wavering in the middle. It's best to continue to let go of things you know aren't good for you in the long term and invest in getting through the transitional period with the least amount of delay to get to the other side. There may be wobbles as you step to one stone and then another. You could slip a couple of times... It's best to keep moving forward and to do your best to maintain your balance.
Some singers cling to their old ways and then wonder why they can hit notes easily in their exercises, but can't in their songs. That would be because they are automatically going into their old locked-in routines and methods and singing exactly the same as before, and not employing their training at all.
Some of the training "rubs off" and they hit higher notes in their songs, but in general, they are not actually crossing over to the other side. They are stuck with their security blanket, pinching down to get high notes, oversinging, straining, etc...
You DO need to work on YOUR songs and bring the KTVA techniques INTO your songs. Work them one-by-one, line-by-line, especially the ones that have always been a challenge to you. Use support, keep your throat open. Maintain ribcage expansion, and keep your sights on the other side when you start having self-doubts and reaching for your blankie.
Transitioning is not always the most secure feeling, because we fear change, yet we WANT change. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Whose channel is it? What a mashup... There for a while, I'm not so sure you were both singing the same verse! Must've been Wednesday somewhere...
Is this what always happens during your rare live performances?
This is better. More legato. Initially you kind of go la ha ah ah ah ah ah. See if you can shake off that "h". It's not a big deal, but it will help smooth your scales even more.
There's still a little bit too much segmentation to the scales that should be smoothed together. I actually would rather these notes slide than segment.
The quality of your voice is very good. Your bridges are improving.
The thing with the segmented notes is that one of the goals in open throat singing is to keep the notes contiguous as much as possible. We de-emphasize the consonants so that they don't close down the vocal tract with pauses. We want to keep the air flowing as constantly as possible and not shut down the vowels to the extent that we can do this. Otherwise, we are constantly having to open up the vocal tract over and over again. By stringing the notes together like a string of pearls rather than separate objects in time, we help to maintain the open throat with a lot less work.
So try to think of these scales and songs as OneLongNote that has many facets to it. Try to not accent the onset of each individual note, either. Again, we want this to be smooth and as continuous (airflow-wise) as possible. Try to make the difference in the notes be purely pitch landing zone differences in a continuous, uninterrupted stream of air.
On your EE, up high, don't forget to go to E-A like eight. That will help you to get through the passagio without breaking.
I'm not hearing you sound flat.
Something just occurred to me about 23 minutes into listening to this. You're doing this to the Piano version of the exercises. Can you practice this to the ones that have just Ken and him playing chords or change the left/right balance to eliminate or minimize the piano? Your pulsing on the individual notes sounds just exactly like the attack on the staccato piano track. If you can turn off the piano track you might not sing this nearly so staccato, and that might help you to become much more legato.
In fact, later when you are playing single piano notes, you seem to be less pulsing.
SO, I think you still need to get more legato, less staccato. Smooth those notes into a less choppy continuum.
Again, it's your choice regarding Volume 3. I think you'll do well once you've got the flow of the notes hammering less and flowing more. You've done a lot of good work since your last submission.
All the Best!
I feel the same way about doing the workouts. I look forward to them every day!
Enjoy your workouts and talk to you when you post again.
Good job on the legato, and the vowel modifications. Try to resist the tendency to add the "h's" in the beginning scales down low and do the pure vowel, AH or AA instead of hAH or hAA. You drop the "h" after you get a few steps up the scale, so just use that same "h-less" onset in the beginning scales.
Continue to work on that pressure regulation up in the passagios. It's a fine adjustment, but the larynx is still clicking into place a little suddenly a few times.
It's interesting that you start many of your EE's with an NG. See if you can do straight "EE" onsets. If that's too squared-off, then the way to round them a bit on the onset is to do a short "A" as in SAY at the front of the EE. The shorter the better on the initial "A" of your A-EE.
I hope you're not frustrated that I hear more correctable items. Each time I spend 30 minutes listening to you, I'm bound to notice something!
Your question about a break up high has to do with registration adjustments up around C5-E5. It's the same thing that happens at the lower passagio, where the thinning of the cords requires pressure and positional adjustments to keep phonation happening. You're using a little too much air pressure and weight when you get there, so it's clicking into place. Seems like perhaps your secondo passagio is around C5 or so.
Back off and work that just like you would a passagio down lower. Experiment with the pressure. The more you gently work that area, the less of a break you will have there, as long as you don't overpressure it. As you get into the higher notes you haven't accessed much before, you will need to give these notes some time to grow a little bit. Don't lean into them yet and don't get into too much of a hurry.
Speaking of being in a hurry, you can take my suggestions for this demo and move on to volume 3 or see if I hear any more notable nuances next time.
Good job, @earwigger.
Sounding good. Improvements in all areas. Some places where the passagio needs less pressure to smooth it out. You got rid of the NG's on the EE's and the "H's" where they weren't needed... A little Squeak on one of the EE's. Overall you are more legato, you should still continue to move in that direction. You're still using the piano tracks and I think that may be an influence there.
I think you're ready to move on.
I just saw this. I don't know why I missed it earlier.
Your voice is sounding really good on this one. Way to go, friend.
Unsolicited feedback: on lines with a little run on the end, where you sing "news" as new-hoo-hooos, take a little more breath and just extend the line so you won't need to put those "h's" in there. It sounds much more pro to sing "new-ooo-ooos". We tend to want to push those embellishments out with an "h" or even just a push of accented air, but the best way to do it is with just a nice, continuous, long, even note that varies in pitch at the tail end. Leave those added consonants and accents out. Try it. I think you'll like it.
You keep getting better and better!
Nice song. Nice sound. I see you're having lots of fun with your new mixer. This is a good quality demo, my friend. Your voice is sounding nice, as well. Very present in the mix. I wish everyone's demos could be this easy to listen to and hear the voice.
Sounds really good, Johan! I like the sound of that mic, too!
You're NAILING this song! You certainly sound like you've really been doing your workouts! Good for You! If Chris should happen to lose his voice, he should call on you to sit in for him at his concerts!
Good work, dude!
Sounding good on All By Myself.
Some feedback on this one. The "I" vowel as in Hi is used in this song ( BY MY) and can create difficulties up high. It's actually a diphthong, and consists of two consecutive vowels, Ah, and EE one right after the other. It's effective to sing it as an AH. Maintaining the Ah you can keep the vocal tract open throughout Ah-ll B-Ah M-Ah Sehlf if you lean a little more towards the Ah vowel through those phrases.
You should be feeling pretty good about your voice these days!
I listened to several of your demos and videos. Nice work, well recorded, well mixed, and nicely sung!
Nice to see you here!
You just keep working the program. Your voice will continue to grow. Eventually it will mature into a more smoky, woodsy sound if that's where you want to take your voice. It takes a lot of stamina, strength, and a lot of support.
Regarding your demo, I would say that increased support is one thing that will help you to reach many of your goals you mentioned that you are seeking. And you do gently stretch a little more each day, but you must remember to stretch but not strain.
I notice that you are listed here on the forums as "Member". If you have purchased a KTVA product, such as Volume 1 or the PRO Bundle, you should copy and paste a copy of your KTVA Purchase receipt into an email to [email protected] and request an upgrade in your forums status.
Members can only see a small part of the KTVA forums. There are more student videos and many forum posts that are for students only. You should utilize the additional resources available to you.
All the Best.
"Yes to challenges."
You've been away for a while. So what's with the new setting? And that Lighting?
You're sounding good as usual.
@overdriveisclassy, "Yes to challenges."You've been away for a while. So what's with the new setting? And that Lighting?You're sounding good as usual. All the Best! Bob
I'm 45 and don't really sing, but I've always wanted to be able to sing just for my own personal satisfaction. Got the program on May 13th and started practicing in my car to and from work (only time I have right now) started to notice a difference so I downloaded "Faithfully" sound track and recorded a little bit on June 4th (up thru "along the wire"). Kept practicing in the car, then things seemed to start getting easier so I recorded another section of the song on June 22nd using the same USB mic on my computer, but I held a paper towel in front of the mic to cut down on the "pop".I plan to keep recording new parts of the song every few weeks as I progress so that hopefully I can hit the high parts at the end of the song when I'm done. When I'm finished, I'll hopefully be able to hear steady progress as I play through the entire song.Still a long way to go, but I'm excited to continue on with the programhttps://www.box.com/s/997464d27f178b42a14c
I'm 45 and don't really sing, but I've always wanted to be able to sing just for my own personal satisfaction. Got the program on May 13th and started practicing in my car to and from work (only time I have right now) started to notice a difference so I downloaded "Faithfully" sound track and recorded a little bit on June 4th (up thru "along the wire"). Kept practicing in the car, then things seemed to start getting easier so I recorded another section of the song on June 22nd using the same USB mic on my computer, but I held a paper towel in front of the mic to cut down on the "pop".
I plan to keep recording new parts of the song every few weeks as I progress so that hopefully I can hit the high parts at the end of the song when I'm done. When I'm finished, I'll hopefully be able to hear steady progress as I play through the entire song.
Still a long way to go, but I'm excited to continue on with the program
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KCGXv_1cqEI've been practicing KTVA for 3 years and still feel like improving - slowly :
Welcome to the KTVA Forums! Your voice sounds really good. You could use a little more support, but your pitch is good, and your style is decent. The keyboard is just a little loud for the level of your voice for the purposes of vocal feedback. It covers your voice just a bit much.
Keep working your voice. You have a great start.
It's good to hear a progress demo from you. Overall, your voice is getting stronger and you are gaining range.
I'd like to hear more support in your voice, and I'd really like to hear you brighten it up a lot.
Go back to the It's the LAH!!! AHH!!! demonstration. Listen to how bright and pingy Ken makes that sound. That's the tone you want. From your post it sounds like maybe you're dabbling in Volume 2 as well, these days? Ken introduces MASK in Volume 2, so you can start bringing that into your tone. You have to use a little bit of airflow into the front of the nasal area. Not honky nasal, but enough to add a little bit of "ring" to your voice. You've got the bottom end covered. Now keep that throat open and add some more ping and ring. Going back to the support, I'd like to hear you lean into the sound a little more, too. Not all the time, but when the song calls for it, you seem to be holding back a little from ever revving your engine much. Put a few more RPM's on it here and there, just to humor me.
Nice job on those G#4's. There are several G#4's in those songs. I thought you stepped up to the plate the best on Long Way From Home. You seemed to have things under control with confidence. You hit a C#5 and also a few B4's in that one. Your support seemed strongest in that song.
Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. Project the sound at the hard surfaces: The Hard palate and front teeth, and concentrating on projecting a bit of the sound beyond the tip and bridge of your nose and in the sinuses in your cheeks around the nose and eyes.
If it sounds too bright, it's just about right. You can always back it off if you should go too far.
Good job. You're right on track. Strong Support is just around the corner for you. Keep up the diligent practice!
Great, Ray. Like I say: Get that ping thing when you sing so your notes can ring. The resounding helps to do part of the work for us. Certain notes and tones and spaces attain resonance. High-frequency E.Q. in the voice itself helps to accommodate higher-frequency notes from our cords. Don't be surprised if this is hard to get a grip on at first. It can be fleeting. Grab it now, while it's fresh in your mind!
Sometimes I concentrate on trying to feel a buzz on the hard palate and teeth and the cartilages in my nose... I'll even try to feel BOTH sides of the hard palate buzz at once. The turbinates inside the nose... Don't ask me how to do that. It's just mental images, but if that works for you, then it works. These are all important parts of your instrument.
Ken sometimes talks about bringing the sound up and around like a giant "C" ringing in the head. I've also heard him say he imagines a target high in the back of his head, off of which a bank shot rings the sound around and up to the front. (again, imagery, but how else can things like that be described, when we just experience them as feelings or impressions. We latch on to these feelings and buzzes and try to embed them for later recall and use when needed.
@Brezeida, Welcome to the KTVA Forums! Your voice sounds really good. You could use a little more support, but your pitch is good, and your style is decent. The keyboard is just a little loud for the level of your voice for the purposes of vocal feedback. It covers your voice just a bit much. Keep working your voice. You have a great start. Bob
How do you DO that? You disappeared and reappeared at the beginning of the video!
Sometimes you amaze me! And how does your voice reach the microphone across the room?
So was this the BIG ONE hundred?
Sounding good, bro!
Nice job, @derrick,
I have this song in my vocal practice book, too, as a Kenny Rogers tune.
Your vocal tone is really buttery-smooth, and I really like your sound. You sing your songs convincingly, with at lot of feeling. It's a treat to hear you.
I do have some critique details for you, if you don't mind.
You had a little trouble with the very first note, probably because it's a really low note right out of the gate, a G3.
I always tell people, make sure you get the first note (and the entire first line) right any time you're recording.
If I'm having trouble with my first note, I'll start over no matter how many times I have to in order to get it right.
No sense in keeping going if I've started out with a miscue.
Remember in your last demo I mentioned getting rid of "h's" in syllables and runs? On "Alright" you sing All-ri-hi-hite. So you're adding h's that aren't there. Also the "I" sound as in "I am here" is a diphthong, so it is two vowels, one after the other of "AH and EE" so the best way when singing is to dwell on the AH and close the end with a super-quick ee just before ending on a soft "t". So you would (on a good long breath) sing AHL-(and do your vocal run on a contiguous rAH followed by a quick -eet )
The consonant "t" in the word "late" causes your vocal tract to shut down, and you have to re-open it afterwards. It is best to de-emphasize consonants when singing in order to dwell more on the vowels. I would recommend you just lightly graze over that "t" so you don't have to say late-tat-night. There's that "I" diphthong again, too. "Leh-dAA-dNAH-eet" is a more contiguous version of that part, with a very light "d" substituting for the "t's" and the AH-ee replacing the "I" of "night".
On the last chorus you seemed to be getting low on support on "faith in me".
Sounds a little like I'm being overly-critical of your song, but I'm mentioning these items just as a matter of recommendation. They're techniques that Ken includes in the course, so I'm always listening for those sorts of things in demos. I am sincere when I tell you that I'm always looking forward to hearing your demos when I see you've posted. You are sounding really good, and I want to help you with some of the finishing touches. I apologize if I'm taking the wind out of your sails. That's not my intent.
Keep up the good work!
Sounding pretty good.
I would do the Alive without the Ali-eeeeeeve. I would do that more a-lahhhhhhhhhh-iv, barely putting any "e" in except right before the "v" comes in.
"Home" does need a "little h" on it. Not much, but just a tiny, little h. I oversteered you on that one.
This is sounding more and more polished every time.
@overdriveisclassy, How do you DO that? You disappeared and reappeared at the beginning of the video!Sometimes you amaze me! And how does your voice reach the microphone across the room? So was this the BIG ONE hundred?"Yes to challenges."Sounding good, bro!: ^) Bob
Yes To Challenges.
Nice job, once again, but come on. You can trust US with your magic secrets... we won't divulge them...MUCH!
Nice harmonies, good groove, and your golden voice, as always, right on the money.
So now we're waiting on the one after Ninety-Nine.
I can't wait.
More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent.
As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KCGXv_1cqEI've been practicing KTVA for 3 years and still feel like improving - slowly :
This is AWESOME!!! wow...... GREAT job man !!!!How did you progress through the volumes ?? like how much time did it take you to go through them ?and did you consider yourself talented prior to getting started with the KTVA course ?
@bberg,More support will help your tone, your consistency, and be an overall improvement. The G#4's sound decent. As to whether you're ready for Volume 3, hearing you do some lah scales would be a better measuring stick. That's how we can see how you're doing with the program. Thanks. Bob
@SteveK, your link isn't there in your posting.
Try again posting it, and look to see your posting when you save it. If the link is missing, do it again, and this time paste in your link two times, one right over the other. Sometimes the forums will not display a link or something you copy unless you put it in twice.
Never do that again!!! Slow down Steve.
Just having fun, Steve (in the post above).
You are still struggling to grasp how to support. Streeter is right that you are still punching out too much air, and blasting on all of the accents. Think of support as more of a shock absorber for your cords. You don't want to hit them that hard with the air.
You're having pitch issues, too, Steve. I think we may have talked about doing the Basic Pitch Program in the past. Did you do that? You've been watching @kaulfers and his quest to conquer the pitch monster. He's really made strides. If you haven't watched all of his videos of training on pitch, you should.
Your tone should be brighter than I'm hearing on these demos. Brighter tone is easier to discern pitch.
I agree with marc that the second scales sound better. Did you warm up your voice before recording this? The second one is better. In the first scale you slide from note-to-note. The second scale is better in the fact that you land on each note instead of sliding from note-to-note. Your pitch is more accurate in the second scale as well.
The pitch issue is important to zero in on. Pitch is non-negotiable. Then support. Correct Support helps pitch to be more consistent.
You can do this, dude, I know you can. I've heard you get really close before.
here is something random after listening to ken and adam singing. trust me i cant pull this off! just for giggles and demo for support.https://soundcloud.com/steven-kindig/highway-star-fail-clip
Both of these demos sound pretty good. The second one is brighter. You have trouble singing the lowest notes of the lowest scales, but that's OK. Those notes are kind of below your range.
You don't seem to have any trouble with the upper range notes, and those are right on pitch.
You also are not having much trouble bridging into head voice. I think you're going to head voice at about G#4.
The way to stretch your chest voice is to lean into the sound with a little more volume and air pressure... but not too much. Gently avoid going into head voice. Like I said, I hear you going into head by around G#4, so you should first try to keep your chest resonance going up to A4, then if that works out, to Bb4, then B4, etc. As an alto, you should be able eventually to go past D5 or so in chest voice, but that's on down the road.
You do need to learn to recognize the different feeling of chest vs head so you will know to keep your voice in chest a little longer. If you can get to a piano, even a virtual one on your computer, listen to yourself and feel the feelings in your voice as you sing this same scale, very slowly. Feel what's happening between around F#4 and A4. That's where you are shifting resonance. That's the area you'll be working with to stretch your chest voice initially.
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